Emmett Till / Trayvon Martin - An Awakening to Racist Evil in America

[Phantasmal]

Like the joys of sobriety?

You know what WC Fields says about sobriety!

 

[Phantasmal]

How do you call it a racist talking point when the leading cause of death of black teenagers is gun violence and 90% of those killings are done by other black people? The leading cause of death of white teenagers is not gun violence. bac acknowledged it and said he's been working 40 years trying to help better the situation. There are many good people in communities all across the country giving everything they have to try and help stop the violence in their neighborhoods. They should be commended for their work.

(So at least to me) stating these facts is recognizing reality with the intention of working to improve it. It's not racist.

It becomes racist when it is used as "gotcha" by someone who doesn't give two shits about the situation, just like Tom used it. When you discuss it, it isn't racists because you genuinely care. Therein lies the difference.

 

[evince]

what if Trayvon had a bruise on his chest from being hit by Zimmy and then zimmy blew a hole through the place he hit him?


what if like the young woman says happened trayvon was rushed by zimmy and hit in the chest so trayvon fell to the ground zimmy jumped on him and trayvon started yelling get off me get off me.

then trayvon punched him in the nose knocking him off of him.

zimmy falls back and hits his head hard on the ground ( a testifying Dr said both the head cuts could have come from one blow)Jumps up and pulls the gun.

trayvon jumps him to try and keep from being shot.


they fall to the ground and zimmy shoots him in the chest.

That my friend comports with EVERY piece of evidence.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

If you TRULY understand the racial injustices within our system, how do you so blindly defend what is 'legal' in a racist environment?

I don't defend it. But I do recognize the jury did not have a choice. That doesn't mean it was the morally correct verdict. It is much like that mom down in Florida who killed her kid. We all know she did it. She deserved to be in jail. Zimmerman should have been hit with manslaughter. But the prosecution went for 2nd. It failed to prove that case. At the end the manslaughter came up, but again the prosecution was so horrid that the case was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Obviously a lot of that has to do with the fact that Zimmerman was alive and Martin obviously not.

I think if anything it is in the prosecution that the racism may have occurred. I can't say for certain, but there is enough doubt there to warrant a closer look. In my opinion.

I asked you if you understood what I as a black father, who TRULY understands the injustices within the system, feel about this? I'm not asking you what you felt about the case, I'm asking you if you think I'm human, with strong emotions for the safety of my children?

Do I understand it to the degree you do? No. I think you are absolutely human and I admire the fact that you care so much for your daughter and granddaughter. That you would take her in while your daughter is stuck in Afghanistan says a lot about your character. I absolutely can tell that you have strong emotions on this case. That said, I think those emotions caused you to say some things that were overly harsh. Just my opinion.

Do you think I'm looney because I have strong feelings about this issue and see Trayvon Martin as I see one of my own?

Do I think you are looney for it? No.

Do I think you let the emotions of it cause you to lash out in an unwarranted manor? Yes.

Do I hold it against you? No. Because I know to well how I can get on issues where my emotions sometimes cause me to lash out as well.

Do we disagree on the comparisons between the Till and Martin cases? Yes.

Is it because of the 'white privilege'? I honestly don't know. I don't think I am doing so, but I also know I try not to see color as best I can. Am I perfect at it? No. But I do try.

You don't want it to be like the Till case because you're a white guy who wants to support the decision .. and because you begin with that perspective, you can't see what is blindingly clear to those who actually know and have lived that history. How do you ignore that and claim you know better than those who lived it? How?

No, I don't THINK it is like the Till case for the reasons I mentioned already. I am certainly open to learning. If you care to try.

That comparison is being made all over the planet .. because it's obvious.

You claim to know of the racism that exists in this country and Florida .. and I believe that you do .. yet, you ignore that there is all manner of evidence that could have EASILY convicted Zimmerman. EASILY. You ignore the disparities between success in 'stand your ground' defenses. You ignore that racism very well could have played a role in this case.

I don't believe I have ignored it at all. I have said multiple times that I think Zimmerman profiled Martin based on race. The comparison simply doesn't seem to hold up to the two cases for the reasons I have already stated. If you can point to my reasons and tell me where I am wrong... I am open to that.

Most importantly, you ignore the truth that it isn't about the law .. it never is .. it's about the application of the law.

Case in point .. white people are the biggest drug users, sellers, and importers of illegal drugs than any other group in America .. BY FAR. Yet, that is not reflected in arrests, prosecutions, parole, or sentencing. Why is that? Same laws, same courts.

It's not about the law, it's about equal application which rarely happen in this country.

I have already acknowledged the racial disparity in arrests/convictions/sentencing. So I am not sure how I am ignoring that. My point was only with regards to the case the prosecution made. I think there was enough for the prosecution to get a manslaughter charge. But the prosecution failed to present it in a way that the jury could convict without a reasonable doubt.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Those are the facts as shown in official stats, if you want to IA me then that's up to you. Are the US govenment racist for publishing the stats?

The equation is simple. Agree with the New BAC Panther Party or you are a defacto racist

 

[canceled.2021.1]

what if Trayvon had a bruise on his chest from being hit by Zimmy and then zimmy blew a hole through the place he hit him?


what if like the young woman says happened trayvon was rushed by zimmy and hit in the chest so trayvon fell to the ground zimmy jumped on him and trayvon started yelling get off me get off me.

then trayvon punched him in the nose knocking him off of him.

zimmy falls back and hits his head hard on the ground ( a testifying Dr said both the head cuts could have come from one blow)Jumps up and pulls the gun.

trayvon jumps him to try and keep from being shot.


they fall to the ground and zimmy shoots him in the chest.

That my friend comports with EVERY piece of evidence.

You can't prove any of it. Nice story, but it doesn't hold up in a court of law which is what counts. I am sorry that you are so anti american that you don't believe in a system that has worked for black people for years. Why do you hate America?

 

[evince]

what if Trayvon had a bruise on his chest from being hit by Zimmy and then zimmy blew a hole through the place he hit him?


what if like the young woman says happened trayvon was rushed by zimmy and hit in the chest so trayvon fell to the ground zimmy jumped on him and trayvon started yelling get off me get off me.

then trayvon punched him in the nose knocking him off of him.

zimmy falls back and hits his head hard on the ground ( a testifying Dr said both the head cuts could have come from one blow)Jumps up and pulls the gun.

trayvon jumps him to try and keep from being shot.


they fall to the ground and zimmy shoots him in the chest.

That my friend comports with EVERY piece of evidence.

This is what the prosecution should have done.

OUTLINE how it could have happened and all the pieces could fall together.

Then they could point out the defendants story did NOT comport with all the evidence

 

[evince]

You can't prove any of it. Nice story, but it doesn't hold up in a court of law which is what counts. I am sorry that you are so anti american that you don't believe in a system that has worked for black people for years. Why do you hate America?

keep licking that blood off your fingers.

dude blacks don't agree it has worked you fool

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Excuse me, he s a demigod, lol, just ask him

Demigod? Woman you are crazy... I am the God of Gods...

 

[evince]

You can't prove any of it. Nice story, but it doesn't hold up in a court of law which is what counts. I am sorry that you are so anti american that you don't believe in a system that has worked for black people for years. Why do you hate America?

bask in the glory of the republican party base

 

[cancel2 2022]

It becomes racist when it is used as "gotcha" by someone who doesn't give two shits about the situation, just like Tom used it. When you discuss it, it isn't racists because you genuinely care. Therein lies the difference.

Bullshit on steroids.

 

[Jeff]

WHAT?

Obama has barely spoken a word about it.

Your kidding right ? If Obama didn't put his two cents in there never would of been a case, GZ broke no law and there where none broken until Trayvon jumped on him broke his nose and smashed his head against the curb , no racism involved at all until Obama jumps in then CNN changes a 911 call to make it about race ( which they are now being sued for ) If it is OK for the President to comment why hasnt he commented about the 13 month old baby that was shot in the head and killed in GA ? Nope not a word he just felt the need to stand up for a young man that his son would of looked like, Did you know GZ's great Grandfather was black ? And whats up with white Hispanic now do we now refer to Obama as white African American ? , come on brother be serious Obama jumped in here to do just what he did have the black folks and white folks at each others throats ,How many sport stars are Hispanic ya never heard them called White Hispanic or actors how many Hispanic actors do ya know , none of them are called White Hispanics ? and by the way how have you been doing long time no see ?

 

[blackascoal]

I don't defend it. But I do recognize the jury did not have a choice. That doesn't mean it was the morally correct verdict. It is much like that mom down in Florida who killed her kid. We all know she did it. She deserved to be in jail. Zimmerman should have been hit with manslaughter. But the prosecution went for 2nd. It failed to prove that case. At the end the manslaughter came up, but again the prosecution was so horrid that the case was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Obviously a lot of that has to do with the fact that Zimmerman was alive and Martin obviously not.

I think if anything it is in the prosecution that the racism may have occurred. I can't say for certain, but there is enough doubt there to warrant a closer look. In my opinion.



Do I understand it to the degree you do? No. I think you are absolutely human and I admire the fact that you care so much for your daughter and granddaughter. That you would take her in while your daughter is stuck in Afghanistan says a lot about your character. I absolutely can tell that you have strong emotions on this case. That said, I think those emotions caused you to say some things that were overly harsh. Just my opinion.



Do I think you are looney for it? No.

Do I think you let the emotions of it cause you to lash out in an unwarranted manor? Yes.

Do I hold it against you? No. Because I know to well how I can get on issues where my emotions sometimes cause me to lash out as well.

Do we disagree on the comparisons between the Till and Martin cases? Yes.

Is it because of the 'white privilege'? I honestly don't know. I don't think I am doing so, but I also know I try not to see color as best I can. Am I perfect at it? No. But I do try.



No, I don't THINK it is like the Till case for the reasons I mentioned already. I am certainly open to learning. If you care to try.



I don't believe I have ignored it at all. I have said multiple times that I think Zimmerman profiled Martin based on race. The comparison simply doesn't seem to hold up to the two cases for the reasons I have already stated. If you can point to my reasons and tell me where I am wrong... I am open to that.

I have already acknowledged the racial disparity in arrests/convictions/sentencing. So I am not sure how I am ignoring that. My point was only with regards to the case the prosecution made. I think there was enough for the prosecution to get a manslaughter charge. But the prosecution failed to present it in a way that the jury could convict without a reasonable doubt.

I appreciate your civil response .. I don't agree with some of it, but I do appreciate the civility.

Where I think you're wrong is in not understanding that it is never about the law, it's about its application .. and without question, that application is incredibly racially-biased in this country. You know that.

Why you think it wasn't there in this case is indeed confusing to say the least.

 

[Rune]

Your kidding right ? If Obama didn't put his two cents in there never would of been a case, GZ broke no law and there where none broken until Trayvon jumped on him broke his nose and smashed his head against the curb , no racism involved at all until Obama jumps in then CNN changes a 911 call to make it about race ( which they are now being sued for ) If it is OK for the President to comment why hasnt he commented about the 13 month old baby that was shot in the head and killed in GA ? Nope not a word he just felt the need to stand up for a young man that his son would of looked like, Did you know GZ's great Grandfather was black ? And whats up with white Hispanic now do we now refer to Obama as white African American ? , come on brother be serious Obama jumped in here to do just what he did have the black fold and white folk at each others throats ,How many sport stars are Hispanic ya never heard them called White Hispanic or actors ? and by the way how have you been doing long time no see ?

lol wtfru

 

[blackascoal]

Your kidding right ? If Obama didn't put his two cents in there never would of been a case, GZ broke no law and there where none broken until Trayvon jumped on him broke his nose and smashed his head against the curb , no racism involved at all until Obama jumps in then CNN changes a 911 call to make it about race ( which they are now being sued for ) If it is OK for the President to comment why hasnt he commented about the 13 month old baby that was shot in the head and killed in GA ? Nope not a word he just felt the need to stand up for a young man that his son would of looked like, Did you know GZ's great Grandfather was black ? And whats up with white Hispanic now do we now refer to Obama as white African American ? , come on brother be serious Obama jumped in here to do just what he did have the black fold and white folk at each others throats ,How many sport stars are Hispanic ya never heard them called White Hispanic or actors ? and by the way how have you been doing long time no see ?

:0) That isn't just ridiculous, it's mindless.

It's laughable.

I am no supporter of Obama, but I don't cast out ridiculous and unfounded criticisms that have no bearing in fact. I leave the 'birth certificate' nonsense to the morons.

Most of what Obama has said on this is "the jury has spoken."

I'm not the least bit interested in your fairy tale about what happened.

I only address you to challenge your bullshit notion that Obama caused this .. as if Zimmerman should have never been prosecuted.

That's ignorant.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

she is telling them what she heard.

Yes... and she told them that she did not know who hit who.

yes she didn't see it with her eyes but she heard it.

Exactly, so she had to guess at what she was hearing (other than what Martin actually said). She guessed as to who hit who. She guessed as to what the thud meant.

explain why zimmy came up and was breathing heavy while yelling at trayvon and then you hear a thud on the phone.

1) She gave her opinion that he was breathing heavy.
2) There are many possible explanations for the thud... the headset could have dropped. Zimmerman could have pushed Martin away from him or hit him in the chest. It could have bumped if Martin fell on top of Zimmerman.

who was wearing that phone?

Irrelevant.

you and everyone KNOWS she did NOT see it but heard it.

I know. Yet you ignore what she says when it contradicts what you want to believe.

why is this just ignored like it meaningless?

The only one ignoring any part of her testimony is YOU.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

but I don't cast out ridiculous and unfounded criticisms that have no bearing in fact.

I thought Desh had ZERO self awareness. This entire thread is about you making ridiculous unfounded criticisms that have no bearing in fact

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

what if Trayvon had a bruise on his chest from being hit by Zimmy and then zimmy blew a hole through the place he hit him?

Then the bruise would have had to be no bigger than the bullet hole. The entry point of a bullet is the size of the bullet, it is the potential exit wound that would be large. So the above does not hold up. Unless you believe in a miraculous shot where the bullet just happened to strike the exact same tiny spot as the 'hit' that caused the bruise.

what if like the young woman says happened trayvon was rushed by zimmy and hit in the chest so trayvon fell to the ground zimmy jumped on him and trayvon started yelling get off me get off me.

While the above is possible, again, no bruise to Martins chest and no other marks to indicate he fell to the ground. It is possible that he was hit so softly that there was no bruise. Maybe Zimmerman shoved him? But still no marks from a fall would suggest there wasn't one. Not impossible, so the above could have happened.

then trayvon punched him in the nose knocking him off of him.

Again, possible. But the time line of the events suggests that it was a quick struggle prior to the shot. So while not likely, I will give you that the above is possible.

zimmy falls back and hits his head hard on the ground ( a testifying Dr said both the head cuts could have come from one blow)Jumps up and pulls the gun.

Here you are getting into the realm of extremely unlikely. If Martin hit Zimmerman with enough force to knock Zimmerman off of him AND strike the cement that hard at the same time, there should have been more damage to Zimmermans nose. To exert that kind of force from your back is not likely. Unless Martin was considerably stronger than we have been told.

trayvon jumps him to try and keep from being shot.

If Zimmerman had jumped up as you said before and pulled the gun, then it is unlikely that Martin could have tackled him back to the ground without the gun being fired. Unlikely, but not impossible.

they fall to the ground and zimmy shoots him in the chest.

Again, falls in with the above... unlikely, but not impossible.

That my friend comports with EVERY piece of evidence.

except the physics involved would strongly suggest that is not what happened. Not to mention the bruise being the same size as the bullet and the two being in the exact same spot being highly unlikely.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I appreciate your civil response .. I don't agree with some of it, but I do appreciate the civility.

Where I think you're wrong is in not understanding that it is never about the law, it's about its application .. and without question, that application is incredibly racially-biased in this country. You know that.

Why you think it wasn't there in this case is indeed confusing to say the least.

I have said that according to what the prosecution presented, the jury made the right call. That said, one could certainly make the case that the prosecution tanked this on purpose. Given the level of ineptitude, I would not question that line of thought in the least.

I didn't say it wasn't there... I think it might have been in terms of how the prosecution went in this case. But I do not think the jury had any choice given the facts AS they were presented. The prosecution left way too many holes there for reasonable doubt. Almost everyone of their witnesses were turned against them. If I was on the jury, I don't see how another verdict would have been possible within in the law. That doesn't make it right... just legal. As you have said, and I agreed, the application of the law lies many times in the hands of the attorneys involved. Sometimes you simply have a brilliant attorney (OJ) that creates reasonable doubt where none should have existed. Sometimes the prosecution sucks (intentionally or not) to the point that it is created (Zimmerman).

Like I said, I know how I can get at times when I am passionate about a topic. I will try my best to remain civil... though I think the board knows I can go off from time to time.

 

[Phantasmal]

Your kidding right ? If Obama didn't put his two cents in there never would of been a case, GZ broke no law and there where none broken until Trayvon jumped on him broke his nose and smashed his head against the curb , no racism involved at all until Obama jumps in then CNN changes a 911 call to make it about race ( which they are now being sued for ) If it is OK for the President to comment why hasnt he commented about the 13 month old baby that was shot in the head and killed in GA ? Nope not a word he just felt the need to stand up for a young man that his son would of looked like, Did you know GZ's great Grandfather was black ? And whats up with white Hispanic now do we now refer to Obama as white African American ? , come on brother be serious Obama jumped in here to do just what he did have the black folks and white folks at each others throats ,How many sport stars are Hispanic ya never heard them called White Hispanic or actors how many Hispanic actors do ya know , none of them are called White Hispanics ? and by the way how have you been doing long time no see ?

Presidents cannot go on national TV about every tragic death, your expectations are ridiculous.