Economic Populism Sells...Libertariansim? Not so much...

Obfuscate said:
It isn't about being against the union. The right for workers to unite is critical. However Unions shouldn't get favors from government nor should they be a barrier to entry for employment as many are.
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Unions are necessary for workers to get a fair deal from employers, that was the only point I wanted to make.
 
Obfuscate said:
It isn't about being against the union. The right for workers to unite is critical. However Unions shouldn't get favors from government nor should they be a barrier to entry for employment as many are.
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Agreed. The function that the unions do serve is to keep the 'corporations' today, from exploiting the workers in the way the illegals are. While union membership is very low, (a result of the unions, btw), they do protect both white and blue collar workers.

Where unions have 'gone wrong' is trying to extort, acting as if they can't read the costs and deficits. Their leadership should be educated enough to understand the need for re-investment, re-tooling, etc.

I often wonder how great our country could be if all would work for the best for the company, meaning no CEO gets obscene salaries and parachutes, and the unions wouldn't try to hold the company ransom.
 
Obfuscate said:
It isn't about being against the union. The right for workers to unite is critical. However Unions shouldn't get favors from government nor should they be a barrier to entry for employment as many are.
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It's not about being against the corporations. Business needs to occur, However, corporations shouldn't get favors from government, like the destruction of the concept of borders and citizenship so companies can hire cheaper workers.
 
Kathianne said:
Agreed. The function that the unions do serve is to keep the 'corporations' today, from exploiting the workers in the way the illegals are. While union membership is very low, (a result of the unions, btw), they do protect both white and blue collar workers.

Where unions have 'gone wrong' is trying to extort, acting as if they can't read the costs and deficits. Their leadership should be educated enough to understand the need for re-investment, re-tooling, etc.

I often wonder how great our country could be if all would work for the best for the company, meaning no CEO gets obscene salaries and parachutes, and the unions wouldn't try to hold the company ransom.
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Unions holding companies ransom? That's funny, kathianne.

More critical now to workers is our actual trade policy. Allowing slave labor into the modern market economy rolls back any kind of humanitarian advances the west has ever made, and puts free people out of work. Witness the return of classism and feudalism, thanks to your 'sell out the west' globalist liar shithead crew.
 
Our government should craft trade policy which benefits all levels of society. Allowing slave labor into the modern economy puts free people out of work and degrades human morality.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Are you saying no affirmative action programs exist? How stupid are you exactly? We need a zero tolerance policy toward racial discrimination of any kind.
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Are you on drugs? Where did I say no AA programs exist .. and for the umpteenth time .. white women have benefited from AA more than anyoe else .. and white women happen to be white .. a fact that continues to escape you.

Of course no racial discrimination should exist, but it does you idiot, thus mechanisms are required to address this reality.
 
Warren said:
The best way to end racial discrimination is to simply stop discriminating by race.

Affirmative Action, IMO, does little but reinforce the notion of racial identity and discourage integration. The existence of AA leaves lingering bitterness in many whites who misunderstand the program's procedures, which is why I feel we would be better off without it.
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Equality of opportunity leaves bitterness in "many whites', so should we stop trying to bring about equality because some white people don't want it?

Many and some whites didn't want to see civil rights enforced in America in the sixties either .. should that effort have been based on what some whites thought?

It's easy and simplistic to profess a desire to see equality, but it's a whole different game to actually work to ensure that happens. That requires a completely different set of moral values.

Talk is cheap
 
Obfuscate said:
I don't think many especially conservatives disagree with a "collective" effect to protect ourselves and our property. Remember it was collective effort to gid RID of intrusive over government.
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There are a lot of conservatives who also collect social security and in their time of need, don't have a problem taking advantage of collectivist programs that benefit them. I'm betting that there are also a lot of conservatives who also want to see nationalized heaalthcare.
 
blackascoal said:
Equality of opportunity leaves bitterness in "many whites', so should we stop trying to bring about equality because some white people don't want it?

Many and some whites didn't want to see civil rights enforced in America in the sixties either .. should that effort have been based on what some whites thought?

It's easy and simplistic to profess a desire to see equality, but it's a whole different game to actually work to ensure that happens. That requires a completely different set of moral values.



Talk is cheap
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It's the overt discrimination against white people that leaves the bitter taste. Talk is cheap? See ya at the riot barrier with a rusty pipe.


You're confused. You assume that racial percentages of any population always indicate the level of 'fairness'. That 'completely different set of moral values' you speak of, is called immorality and injustice. The ends don't justify the means, nor are your ends even aligned with your assumed goal of a persecution free workplace. BAC, are you against racial discrimination, or are you just against white people, because when you frame racial discrimination as a 'necessary evil to ensure justice', it makes it seem like you're a small minded, revenge-oriented bigot.
 
blackascoal said:
There are a lot of conservatives who also collect social security and in their time of need, don't have a problem taking advantage of collectivist programs that benefit them. I'm betting that there are also a lot of conservatives who also want to see nationalized heaalthcare.
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The fact is they have been forced to pay for something all their life, of course they want as much out of it as they can get for their investment. The real debate is that if they were to invest that money privately they would be able to get a better return. They would be happy to not take it as long as their not forced to pay for it.

As far as equality of opportunity affirmative action does no such thing. It's goal is equality of outcome...

"Everybody has asked the question. . ."What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are wormeaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone!"

Frederick Douglass
 
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blackascoal said:
As usual and expected, once again you're incapable of demonstrating evidence of wide spread racial discrimination against whites .. in the land dominated by white people.

You aren't comprehending what "evidence" is and you don't appear capable of figuring it out.

And what white people ar you talking about GIVEN that AA has helped WHITE women more than it has helped blacks .. AND AA also includes various programs for the disabled.
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In other words: Racism with government policy is ok, because hey there is more sexism with government policy.

Liberal logic...
 
Obfuscate said:
The fact is they have been forced to pay for something all their life, of course they want as much out of it as they can get for their investment. The real debate is that if they were to invest that money privately they would be able to get a better return. They would be happy to not take it as long as their not forced to pay for it.

As far as equality of opportunity affirmative action does no such thing. It's goal is equality of outcome...

"Everybody has asked the question. . ."What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are wormeaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone!"

Frederick Douglass
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I'm not sure you really know what Douglass stood for .. or even how to interpret this statement. Did you assume "Your doing has already played mischief with us" that he was talking about affirmative action or was he talking about slavery and the yoke of racist oppression?

If Douglass was alive today you would be calling him a militant ..

"America is false to the past, false to the present, and solemnly binds herself to be false to the future."

" If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning.

" Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

"What to the Slave is the 4th of July."

What Douglass proclaimed is indeed true .. leave the "negro" alone and allow for equal opportunity and they will stand on their own as evidenced in virtually all walks of life today when blacks have access to that opportunity.

This is also true for women, all women .. including white women .. and the disabled and disadvantaged who have excelled under AA guidelines to open doors .. a fact that people like you continue to ignore, choosing rather to focus singuarly on black people.

I call it the whining death throes of white male dominance.

Mooooo
 
blackascoal said:
I'm not sure you really know what Douglass stood for .. or even how to interpret this statement. Did you assume "Your doing has already played mischief with us" that he was talking about affirmative action or was he talking about slavery and the yoke of racist oppression?

If Douglass was alive today you would be calling him a militant ..

"America is false to the past, false to the present, and solemnly binds herself to be false to the future."

" If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning.

" Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

"What to the Slave is the 4th of July."

What Douglass proclaimed is indeed true .. leave the "negro" alone and allow for equal opportunity and they will stand on their own as evidenced in virtually all walks of life today when blacks have access to that opportunity.

This is also true for women, all women .. including white women .. and the disabled and disadvantaged who have excelled under AA guidelines to open doors .. a fact that people like you continue to ignore, choosing rather to focus singuarly on black people.

I call it the whining death throes of white male dominance.

Mooooo
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What are you blamming about? You're the biggest conformist on here. You only agitate along racial lines. Everyone rejects your reverse discrimination, but you keep yammering on about. Our enemy is not each other, blackie, it's the fascist internationalist globalist movement and it's oppressive agenda. BLACK AND WHITE UNITE! Reject discrimination in all it's flavors!
 
blackascoal said:
I'm not sure you really know what Douglass stood for .. or even how to interpret this statement. Did you assume "Your doing has already played mischief with us" that he was talking about affirmative action or was he talking about slavery and the yoke of racist oppression?

If Douglass was alive today you would be calling him a militant ..

"America is false to the past, false to the present, and solemnly binds herself to be false to the future."

" If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning.

" Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

"What to the Slave is the 4th of July."

What Douglass proclaimed is indeed true .. leave the "negro" alone and allow for equal opportunity and they will stand on their own as evidenced in virtually all walks of life today when blacks have access to that opportunity.

This is also true for women, all women .. including white women .. and the disabled and disadvantaged who have excelled under AA guidelines to open doors .. a fact that people like you continue to ignore, choosing rather to focus singuarly on black people.

I call it the whining death throes of white male dominance.

Mooooo
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Is "affirmative action" leaving anyone alone?

Tsk, tsk, such a long rant, dancing around and missing the most blatant contradiction...on purpose of course.
 
AssHatZombie said:
What are you blamming about? You're the biggest conformist on here. You only agitate along racial lines. Everyone rejects your reverse discrimination, but you keep yammering on about. Our enemy is not each other, blackie, it's the fascist internationalist globalist movement and it's oppressive agenda. BLACK AND WHITE UNITE! Reject discrimination in all it's flavors!
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I'll call this the racist version of Cumbaya

MOOOOOOOO !!!

:)
 
blackassdolt said:
Moooooooo !!!

:)
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Ok so you have no answer, affirmative action is clearly not leaving the black man alone as Douglass wanted, it is government trying to do for him.

Thanks for milking your bullshit for all it's worth, but in the end it just ended up as cheese.
:):):)
 
TheDanold said:
Ok so you have no answer, affirmative action is clearly not leaving the black man alone as Douglass wanted, it is government trying to do for him.

Thanks for milking your bullshit for all it's worth, but in the end it just ended up as cheese.
:):):)
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I've posted both the answers and the questions .. but it takes the ability to comprehend to figure it out .. as it does what Douglass stood for .. which you don't know either.

Got this little nagging thing that's left hanging out there that people like yourself can't seem to touch in your false argument about damage to white people with AA .. it's called white women.

How many times need I smack you upside the head with this truth before you find the courage to address it?

MOOOOOOO

:cool:
 
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