Drug Testing Welfare Recipiants Bad Move by Conservatives

cawacko

Well-known member
This article is written by a conservative. In theory I understand not wanting those who receive welfare to be on drugs. The reality of attempting to implement that in a government policy is different though and against what conservatives stand for. I bolded an excellent analogy she makes below comparing Democrats and the minimum wage and income inequality to Republicans and this policy.




Drug-testing welfare recipients: A big mistake for conservatives

It's cruel, likely unconstitutional and doesn't even save money



While the world’s attention is turned alternatingly toward a vast search area in the Indian Ocean and Crimea, domestic politics here at home chug along without much attention.

A new report has cleared New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie of any knowledge or involvement in Bridgegate, Sen. Dianne Feinstein has accused the CIA of spying on Senate staffers and Obamacare is just days away from an important deadline.

But it’s another story, out of Mississippi, that has really been shortchanged by the news coverage — and that should have folks in every corner of the country alarmed.

Mississippi Republicans are following in the footsteps of many Republican lawmakers before them in trying to tie drug testing to federal assistance. A bill passed the state House earlier this year and the state Senate last week — and Republican Gov. Phil Bryant promptly signed it into law.

This is a huge mistake. I say that as someone who’s suspicious of welfare programs and sympathetic to conservatives’ big-government concerns.

Similar legislation has passed elsewhere and is being considered in half the states; it’s also been struck down in federal courts. Whether Mississippi or other states will be able to overcome the legal arguments is anyone's guess.

I’m no fan of government dependency, and I think most welfare programs either accidentally or deliberately lock people into relying on taxpayer assistance instead of lifting them out of it. I think there are better ways to help people out of poverty and into productivity.

But the Republican solution — to tie federal assistance to drug testing — is more than just silly. It runs contrary to everything conservatives are supposed to stand for.

For one, it’s undeniably and almost unfathomably a terrific example of the kind of big government conservatives rail against, crossing all kinds of privacy lines.

And it’s inefficient government, as lawsuit after lawsuit attempting to figure out just who should be tested and how much authority the state has over federal money has proven.

It’s also discriminatory and, at least according to some judges, unconstitutional. If receiving federal money is the trigger, what about drug testing everyone else who receives grants, federal loans and public money to start businesses, go to college or buy a home?


Drug testing doesn’t make a whole lot of fiscal sense either. In cases where states have implemented similar requirements — filling out a questionnaire that’s meant to red flag potential substance abusers and then trigger the drug test - savings were modest. Mississippi state Sen. Terry Burton estimates their bill could actually cost as much as $291,000 if everyone who applied turned out to be a substance abuser.

Worst of all, it’s a non-solution to a very real problem, which is the kind of empty, symbolic politicking conservatives regularly accuse Democrats of engaging in. Just as (honest) Democrats know raising the minimum wage won’t solve income inequality, Republicans should know that denying people federal assistance because they fail a drug test won’t solve poverty or a rising drug epidemic.

And proponents of this silly idea use the same emotional arguments Democrats use to sell their silly ideas.

“I see this as a step forward in trying to get people more responsive and back in the productivity,” Capt. Ken Chapman, regional coordinator for the Salvation Army in Jackson, Miss, told the Daily Caller. “It’s not about condemning people; it’s actually about tough love and giving people a hand up than a handout.”

I’m all for a hand up, but where is it in this legislation? Someone tests positive for drugs, is denied federal assistance and is sent back out onto the streets moneyless and drug addicted. How is he any closer to being solvent or off drugs? How is the community safer when a broke and desperate drug addict is left without anywhere else to go?

The conservative impulse might be to say, “Get a job,” which we all know in Obama’s economy is harder said than done, and I’d imagine even harder when broke and drug addicted. But equating poverty with criminality is hardly the kind of compassionate conservatism Republicans used to embody.

Instead, thoughtful conservatives should champion more access to job and skills training, online education, faith-based initiatives and private organizations that are creatively solving community problems.

Meantime, Republicans should fight to reform welfare in ways that make government assistance leaner and more efficient, instead of fighting to keep it alive and bureaucratically muck it up even further with symbolic, unworkable amendments that solve no problems.


http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...s-big-mistake-conservatives-article-1.1734098
 
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the arguments for this are absurd, and yet mirror liberal arguments over voter ID. just more evidence that neither group really gives a damn about the constitution, except for parts they like.
 
I don't agree with it for several reasons.

First of all some drug use does not correlate to a failure to earn money or work, its simply the government trying to enforce a morality upon a class of people. I know many coke users who make plenty of money.

If people paid for unemployment insurance via their taxes its not an entitlement, its a policy the people paid for, changing the conditions upon which they can collect on that policy is unfair.

Food stamps are generally provided to assist in keeping families together and ensuring the health of children. The side of food stamps nobody wants to admit is that its also a jobs program, without food stamps many current jobs would go away and the bottom line of many corporations, such as Wall-Mart would suffer.

There are more reasons based on privacy and childhood development but I don't need to spend more time on this.
 
I don't agree with it for several reasons.

First of all some drug use does not correlate to a failure to earn money or work, its simply the government trying to enforce a morality upon a class of people. I know many coke users who make plenty of money.

If people paid for unemployment insurance via their taxes its not an entitlement, its a policy the people paid for, changing the conditions upon which they can collect on that policy is unfair.

Food stamps are generally provided to assist in keeping families together and ensuring the health of children. The side of food stamps nobody wants to admit is that its also a jobs program, without food stamps many current jobs would go away and the bottom line of many corporations, such as Wall-Mart would suffer.

There are more reasons based on privacy and childhood development but I don't need to spend more time on this.

all of this should be reduced to a very simple argument. the 4th and 5th Amendments. there is no legal validation to require a drug test for non criminal activity nor is there any legal exemption to force somebody on government assistance to provide self incriminating evidence.
 
I don't agree with it for several reasons.

First of all some drug use does not correlate to a failure to earn money or work, its simply the government trying to enforce a morality upon a class of people. I know many coke users who make plenty of money.

If people paid for unemployment insurance via their taxes its not an entitlement, its a policy the people paid for, changing the conditions upon which they can collect on that policy is unfair.

Food stamps are generally provided to assist in keeping families together and ensuring the health of children. The side of food stamps nobody wants to admit is that its also a jobs program, without food stamps many current jobs would go away and the bottom line of many corporations, such as Wall-Mart would suffer.

There are more reasons based on privacy and childhood development but I don't need to spend more time on this.

Was drug testing being tied to unemployment benefits?
 
would that be because 'general welfare' in the preamble has been tortured in to meaning anything?

Its because what we used to call "welfare" was ended by President Clinton's signature 15 years ago, but Republicans like to pretend it still exists.
 
Its because what we used to call "welfare" was ended by President Clinton's signature 15 years ago, but Republicans like to pretend it still exists.

I don't know what that means. I'm quite capable of determining basic definitions of words without needing some political figure to tell me what they are.
 
I don't know, when people use the term "welfare", I am never really sure what they are talking about anymore.

Well, I've read nothing that said drug testing has been tied to unemployment insurance. Hell you live in Florida where Rick Scott tried to pass this law. You don't know which program(s) the drug testing was tied to?
 
This is an example where a law is written to try and fix an older bad law. If welfare was a safety net instead of a hammock, these drug addicts wouldn't have the money to buy drugs in the first place.
 
all of this should be reduced to a very simple argument. the 4th and 5th Amendments. there is no legal validation to require a drug test for non criminal activity nor is there any legal exemption to force somebody on government assistance to provide self incriminating evidence.
Nor is there constitutional justification for welfare.
 
This article is written by a conservative. In theory I understand not wanting those who receive welfare to be on drugs. The reality of attempting to implement that in a government policy is different though and against what conservatives stand for. I bolded an excellent analogy she makes below comparing Democrats and the minimum wage and income inequality to Republicans and this policy.




Drug-testing welfare recipients: A big mistake for conservatives

It's cruel, likely unconstitutional and doesn't even save money



While the world’s attention is turned alternatingly toward a vast search area in the Indian Ocean and Crimea, domestic politics here at home chug along without much attention.

A new report has cleared New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie of any knowledge or involvement in Bridgegate, Sen. Dianne Feinstein has accused the CIA of spying on Senate staffers and Obamacare is just days away from an important deadline.

But it’s another story, out of Mississippi, that has really been shortchanged by the news coverage — and that should have folks in every corner of the country alarmed.

Mississippi Republicans are following in the footsteps of many Republican lawmakers before them in trying to tie drug testing to federal assistance. A bill passed the state House earlier this year and the state Senate last week — and Republican Gov. Phil Bryant promptly signed it into law.

This is a huge mistake. I say that as someone who’s suspicious of welfare programs and sympathetic to conservatives’ big-government concerns.

Similar legislation has passed elsewhere and is being considered in half the states; it’s also been struck down in federal courts. Whether Mississippi or other states will be able to overcome the legal arguments is anyone's guess.

I’m no fan of government dependency, and I think most welfare programs either accidentally or deliberately lock people into relying on taxpayer assistance instead of lifting them out of it. I think there are better ways to help people out of poverty and into productivity.

But the Republican solution — to tie federal assistance to drug testing — is more than just silly. It runs contrary to everything conservatives are supposed to stand for.

For one, it’s undeniably and almost unfathomably a terrific example of the kind of big government conservatives rail against, crossing all kinds of privacy lines.

And it’s inefficient government, as lawsuit after lawsuit attempting to figure out just who should be tested and how much authority the state has over federal money has proven.

It’s also discriminatory and, at least according to some judges, unconstitutional. If receiving federal money is the trigger, what about drug testing everyone else who receives grants, federal loans and public money to start businesses, go to college or buy a home?


Drug testing doesn’t make a whole lot of fiscal sense either. In cases where states have implemented similar requirements — filling out a questionnaire that’s meant to red flag potential substance abusers and then trigger the drug test - savings were modest. Mississippi state Sen. Terry Burton estimates their bill could actually cost as much as $291,000 if everyone who applied turned out to be a substance abuser.

Worst of all, it’s a non-solution to a very real problem, which is the kind of empty, symbolic politicking conservatives regularly accuse Democrats of engaging in. Just as (honest) Democrats know raising the minimum wage won’t solve income inequality, Republicans should know that denying people federal assistance because they fail a drug test won’t solve poverty or a rising drug epidemic.

And proponents of this silly idea use the same emotional arguments Democrats use to sell their silly ideas.

“I see this as a step forward in trying to get people more responsive and back in the productivity,” Capt. Ken Chapman, regional coordinator for the Salvation Army in Jackson, Miss, told the Daily Caller. “It’s not about condemning people; it’s actually about tough love and giving people a hand up than a handout.”

I’m all for a hand up, but where is it in this legislation? Someone tests positive for drugs, is denied federal assistance and is sent back out onto the streets moneyless and drug addicted. How is he any closer to being solvent or off drugs? How is the community safer when a broke and desperate drug addict is left without anywhere else to go?

The conservative impulse might be to say, “Get a job,” which we all know in Obama’s economy is harder said than done, and I’d imagine even harder when broke and drug addicted. But equating poverty with criminality is hardly the kind of compassionate conservatism Republicans used to embody.

Instead, thoughtful conservatives should champion more access to job and skills training, online education, faith-based initiatives and private organizations that are creatively solving community problems.

Meantime, Republicans should fight to reform welfare in ways that make government assistance leaner and more efficient, instead of fighting to keep it alive and bureaucratically muck it up even further with symbolic, unworkable amendments that solve no problems.


http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...s-big-mistake-conservatives-article-1.1734098
The issue I have with drug testing law is that is violated one constitutional right to the presumption of innocence and the right not to testify against ones self. In addition it sets a horrible precedent that could be expanded to include drug testing for any and all government services. If it's acceptable to drug test public relief applicant the by the same precend couldn't they make you take a drug test for;

Recieving a federally funded mortgage?
A quarenteed student loan?
Medicare/Medicaid benefits?
Social Security benefits?
A marriage license?
A drivers license?
A business permit?
Public education?

See my point? This law not only violates constitutional protections but its establishes a very frightening legal precedent that to recieve any kind of government service you might have to prove that you are not a criminal.
 
This is an example where a law is written to try and fix an older bad law. If welfare was a safety net instead of a hammock, these drug addicts wouldn't have the money to buy drugs in the first place.
Except that the testing program has shown that's not the case. That in fact very few applicants have tested positive and that the program costs the tax payers significantly more than it saves them.
 
The issue I have with drug testing law is that is violated one constitutional right to the presumption of innocence and the right not to testify against ones self. In addition it sets a horrible precedent that could be expanded to include drug testing for any and all government services. If it's acceptable to drug test public relief applicant the by the same precend couldn't they make you take a drug test for;

Recieving a federally funded mortgage?
A quarenteed student loan?
Medicare/Medicaid benefits?
Social Security benefits?
A marriage license?
A drivers license?
A business permit?
Public education?

See my point? This law not only violates constitutional protections but its establishes a very frightening legal precedent that to recieve any kind of government service you might have to prove that you are not a criminal.

Then you must also believe that being required to take a drug test, prior to being hired, is also a violation regarding the constitutional right to the presumption of innocence and the right not to testify against ones self?
 
and yet the feds can regulate speed limits and drinking ages.
One could make a case of the constitutionality of the former, at least om "post roads", because FedCo has an interest in regulating what they are authorized to build and maintain. I see no such argument for regulation of alcohol or any drug.
 
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