Dow closing in on 40K

BartenderElite said:
That's incredible.

And it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The stock market isn't a bunch of rich guys at a casino. It generally only goes up like this if the economy is good, people are working & things in general are looking up. Investors are cautious in bad economic times.

And Trump knows this, btw. Which is why he gave us one of his more clownish takes (and that's really saying something), letting us know that it was only going up because investors were so sure he'd win in November.
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Wait til that NVIDIA crashes.
 
Hermes Thoth said:
deep state rags always lie.
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right. so you just pivot your lies from saying 'No deep State rags were reporting that...'

to me showing you they were and your then your new lie is...

'Deep state rags always do it and just lie'.


It must suck to see yourself so easily fact checked all the time, and proven proven wrong so consistently.


Oh... and stupid.
 
QP! said:
right. so you just pivot your lies from saying 'No deep State rags were reporting that...'

to me showing you they were and your then your new lie is...

'Deep state rags always do it and just lie'.


It must suck to see yourself so easily fact checked all the time, and proven proven wrong so consistently.


Oh... and stupid.
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well, if that's how u feel.


this is why you're losing.
 
Stone said:
The people are seeing that a trump presidency is looking more and more likely by the day. Confidence is growing. When you are confident you invest. Thank goodness for President trump!
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Four years ago (2020) civilian jobs were down 20 million, unemployment was 13%, and the stock market was 20,000.
 
QP! said:
I love it that you magats have given up trying to say the economy under Biden sucks.

I called it every step of the way months back, when you guys were in full denial about how good things were, pointing out to you, you had to update your rhetoric as Trump was increasingly switching from 'its sucks under Biden' to 'It is good because they think i am coming in'.


That is so awesome and gives me so much joy that you guys HAVE TO lie to yourselves so blatantly as you can no longer deny how good all these FACTUAL metrics are.
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the economy under Biden sucks.

the official numbers under-report inflation and stock rallies are often just an irrational bubble, because all other market sectors are bad.
 
cawacko said:
You are doing the exact same thing Trump did, trying to credit his policies (or Biden's in your case) as the reason for the increase.

I quote Paul Krugman's line from his 2020 column: "First, the stock market is not the economy. Second, the stock market is not the economy".

The Fed is the largest driver of the stock market, it's the reason markets hang on Powell's every proclamation and respond as they do to how they think he will move rates. Throughout the past decade plus the Fed has largely kept rates extremely low with the idea of the wealth effect in mind, that if asset prices increased people would feel richer and spend more. The stock market largely boomed as a result. That was totally separate from the economy. The Taper Tantrum of 2013 was driven by the Fed threatening to ease up on QE.

There are people who think the market has gotten ahead of itself and that inflation is not tamed to the level the Fed desires and Powell won't actually cut rates to the level expected. I'm far from a market expert so I can't speak to that one way or other but I know the debate that's being had.

I am not an expert on monetary policy, or anything close. But I read enough about it to have a modicum of knowledge on the subject. And for those who don't understand how monetary policy works, they simply credit/blame the President for the stock market's performance because that's all they understand.
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And you make the mistake most novices do on this topic.

While it is certain that no POTUS, has ultimate control over the markets and economy it is FOOLISH to deny their impact.

There is no denying that if American gov'ts did not focus on rebuilding the country in the Reconstruction Era, and just left it all to the Markets to sort out, that the types of nationwide prosperity that you saw all across America was due in large part to that governmental focus and effort.

The Golden Era of the US, starting in the 1950's where each successive government, whether Republican or Democrat was building infrastructure, raising Minimum Wage, and making massive investments to benefit the middle class (home ownership, etc) also massively impacted the Nation over all.

I know Magats are desperate to rewrite and deny that history but when the gov't invests in roads, ports, high speed internet, and other infrastructure, that is a Competitive advantage that drives higher profits for corporations and fosters more start ups and more companies to set up in America.

When government chooses to help the Middle class more than the Oligarch class, that frees up capital for the MC, which is the main driver of discretionary spending and thus consumer demand and thus increased profits and a better business climate.


YOur denial of this is just empty oligarch driven, PAID FOR talking points as to why all the benefits should flow to them directly and they can let trickle down what they want.
 
QP! said:
The main drivers are that Inflation is coming down in a very sustained way.

Jobs and wages are outpacing it and growing at a pace we have not seen, in decades.

Bidenomics infrastructure projects are starting to come on line and will continue adding more and more high paying jobs in the decades to come.

And that will drive increased consumer spending, meaning more profits and bigger profits for corporations can be predictably forecast, thus leading to increased stock prices.


It should be NO shock that big investments in the Middle Class and infrastructure are what build American wealth for ALL, including the uber rich and yet Magats, and the Republi'cans' still want to end and just hand all the money to the uber rich directly while piling on debt, believing that is the long term way to build America. And by 'build America', I mean enrich themselves, as even they do not believe that 'trickle down' shit works to build an economy.
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on what items is inflation going down in a sustained way?

you live in a world of idiotic delusion.
 
Hermes Thoth said:
the economy under Biden sucks.

the official numbers under-report inflation and stock rallies are often just an irrational bubble, because all other market sectors are bad.
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Yeah, terrible if you are stupid lying derp.


RICH HOMEOWNERS...
16/02/24

INVESTMENT

US Luxury Real Estate Prices Reach Record High
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Average Homeowners...
January 30, 2024 10:40am EST
US home prices hit a new record high in November
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New to the Job Market...
New US workers offered record average wages in November, NY Fed says
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Regular employee Job Market
Record High Average Wage Offers In U.S. Point To Labor Market Changes
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Record High: U.S. Now Has 2 Job Openings for Every Person Who Is Unemployed
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QP! said:
And you make the mistake most novices do on this topic.

While it is certain that no POTUS, has ultimate control over the markets and economy it is FOOLISH to deny their impact.

There is no denying that if American gov'ts did not focus on rebuilding the country in the Reconstruction Era, and just left it all to the Markets to sort out, that the types of nationwide prosperity that you saw all across America was due in large part to that governmental focus and effort.

The Golden Era of the US, starting in the 1950's where each successive government, whether Republican or Democrat was building infrastructure, raising Minimum Wage, and making massive investments to benefit the middle class (home ownership, etc) also massively impacted the Nation over all.

I know Magats are desperate to rewrite and deny that history but when the gov't invests in roads, ports, high speed internet, and other infrastructure, that is a Competitive advantage that drives higher profits for corporations and fosters more start ups and more companies to set up in America.

When government chooses to help the Middle class more than the Oligarch class, that frees up capital for the MC, which is the main driver of discretionary spending and thus consumer demand and thus increased profits and a better business climate.


YOur denial of this is just empty oligarch driven, PAID FOR talking points as to why all the benefits should flow to them directly and they can let trickle down what they want.
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Wow. So only novices, MAGGOTS and oligarchs think monetary policy plays any role in what drives the stock market.

If one subscribes to the belief that 'you learn something new everyday' well this qualifies at it for me.
 
Hermes Thoth said:
on what items is inflation going down in a sustained way?

you live in a world of idiotic delusion.
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I'v educated you about dozens times on your simplistic and stupid views.

You will NEVER get prices to come down in any meaningful way that is not a blip. Consumer goods,, housing, etc only goes up and to the right.

The way you deal with that, is raising wages to out compete.

Go back to the early 1900's to today and the most prosperous time in American history and what i say is absolutely FACT and TRUE.

fredgraph.png
 
cawacko said:
Wow. So only novices, MAGGOTS and oligarchs think monetary policy plays any role in what drives the stock market.

If one subscribes to the belief that 'you learn something new everyday' well this qualifies at it for me.
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YES.


If you discount and say NO AMOUNT OF INFRASTRUCTURE MATTERS. Nothing the government does matters. YOu are a derp.

Russia is suffering due in massive part to Putin choosing to syphon up all the countries wealth to the Oligarchs instead of choosing to invest in building the country and middle class.

YOu will read that and say 'none of that matters' as Putin and the Oligarchs will feed out in messaging.
 
cawacko said:
You left out what's driving this and that's Powell maintaining his outlook for easing with three rate cuts expected this year.
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Yep, that's a good part of it for sure. It has little to nothing to do with Trump or Biden. It is certainly a blessing though for all of us who have 401(k)s or other investments.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Yep, that's a good part of it for sure. It has little to nothing to do with Trump or Biden. It is certainly a blessing though for all of us who have 401(k)s or other investments.
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For someone like me (age 51) who has a retirement account, a mutual fund and a 529 for my daughter, I'm a very simple long-term investor. So I'd always rather see the market higher than lower but since I'm in it for the long run I stayed pretty even keeled when it goes up or down. For someone who trades on a more active basis or is at retirement then yeah, I'm sure it's very exciting to see these numbers.

Maybe your husband has an answer to this question because I don't know it (and this question has nothing to do with who is President), does the Fed cater too much to the market? The Greenspan Put comes to mind. On one hand, it was great to stop the market from falling. But does it change investors habits and make them take on more risks which ultimately isn't good for us on the whole? (That has nothing to do with what we were discussing but it popped into my head as I wrote the above.)
 
cawacko said:
For someone like me (age 51) who has a retirement account, a mutual fund and a 529 for my daughter, I'm a very simple long-term investor. So I'd always rather see the market higher than lower but since I'm in it for the long run I stayed pretty even keeled when it goes up or down. For someone who trades on a more active basis or is at retirement then yeah, I'm sure it's very exciting to see these numbers.

Maybe your husband has an answer to this question because I don't know it (and this question has nothing to do with who is President), does the Fed cater too much to the market? The Greenspan Put comes to mind. On one hand, it was great to stop the market from falling. But does it change investors habits and make them take on more risks which ultimately isn't good for us on the whole? (That has nothing to do with what we were discussing but it popped into my head as I wrote the above.)
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I will ask him what he thinks when h e gets back. Tell me first though what you mean by "to the market." To the markets in general, or a particular one?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I will ask him what he thinks when h e gets back. Tell me first though what you mean by "to the market." To the markets in general, or a particular one?
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The stock market specifically. He may not have thoughts one way or the other but would be curious to hear what they are if he does.
 
BartenderElite said:
That's incredible.

And it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The stock market isn't a bunch of rich guys at a casino. It generally only goes up like this if the economy is good, people are working & things in general are looking up. Investors are cautious in bad economic times.

And Trump knows this, btw. Which is why he gave us one of his more clownish takes (and that's really saying something), letting us know that it was only going up because investors were so sure he'd win in November.
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The market isn't a good indicator of how well the average consumer is doing, though.

Corporate rape is keeping prices high as CEOs brag about 'strength of price' and consumers who aren't complaining. Or are blaming everyone but them.

Higher prices yield higher dividends and higher share prices.

Similar for oil. Prices spike at the pump, and the market does well. Meanwhile, we pay at the pump.

I'm as happy as the next guy to enjoy higher dividends, and a discussion of a great market is fine.

As long as we aren't trying to offer it as evidence that average people are benefitting. The '401k' claim that we always hear rarely affects people who are 20+ years from retirement.
 
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