Double Mormon Ticket...

[christiefan915]

Very interesting. You resort to all sorts of mental gymnastics to defend Islam and its pedophile prophet, but you automatically take the word of an ex-Mormon site as gospel? Very, very telling indeed.

LOL, I was hoping against hope someone would bring up Islam and pedophilia.

I refer you to the biographies of Joseph Smith and his approximately 28 wives, several of them age 14. Or Brigham Young and his 55 wives, several of them ages 15-16.

These two make Muhammad look like a piker with his 13, a combination of wives and concubines.

 

[zappasguitar]

Zappa is mistaken, either deliberately or in ignorance, at least according to the ex-Mormons that I know (they have no incentive to lie "for" the religion)...

Oh...and I DO have "incentive" to lie for the religion? Kindly explain how you reached that conclusion.

Your name is added to a list of those who have resigned and according to official Dogma you no longer have access to the best of the afterlife if you resign. While they do continue to keep a list of those who have resigned, they are not "members", they are in fact listed as "resigned" and are actively contacted in the hope they can return them to the "fold"...

This would net you contact, especially so if you officially resign, but you are not "officially" considered a member. You are considered to be resigned from your membership and it says so next to your name...

I have provided you links to many sites that show you how to officially resign, because it is (uniquely in my experience) actually allowed though you will find resistance when you try... they'll try to keep you, but if you do it correctly there is official means to resign even so.

The reality is, Mormonism is actually one of the few religions that have an official means to leave the church, the originating post is simply incorrect. The problem that I have, and what I see as a form of intolerance, when shown to be in error people here seem to seize upon anything to keep the fiction alive. Very few people remain purposefully ignorant when faced with factual information provided to them, those that do are deliberately ignorant and spread what they know to be misinformation. This is a form of intolerance, and indeed is bigotry.

And according to the ex-Mormon sites... You can even get your name removed.

http://www.mormonresignation.com/

You've provided nothing...if only documentation from "official LDS websites" is acceptable proof to you, then I don't buy some OP- ED piece from a disgruntled ex churchgoer...find me something from an "official" LDS website saying as much.


As I said over and over and over, you can quit, but your name will continue to be counted by the church hierarchy as a member of the church.

 

[Rationalist]

LOL, I was hoping against hope someone would bring up Islam and pedophilia.

I refer you to the biographies of Joseph Smith and his approximately 28 wives, several of them age 14. Or Brigham Young and his 55 wives, several of them ages 15-16.

These two make Muhammad look like a piker with his 13, a combination of wives and concubines.

I do not dispute any of that. It's plain as day to me that Joseph Smith was a lunatic, and BY a corrupt opportunist. If there is a hell, they're both roasting. That is my personal opinion. Mormons, however, would argue that while Joseph Smith was sealed to a multitude of women (including girls as young as 14), he did not consummate the marriages because they were exclusively "spiritual" in nature. Is there any evidence to counter their claim?

Furthermore, Joseph Smith didn't fuck a nine-year-old girl. The evidence for Muhammad being a pervert is overwhelming. But you continue to deny the facts and defend the pervert.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/pedophile.htm

 

[Phantasmal]

Please link us up to the LDS site's area that says this. Because it is not true from all accounts I have heard. So do enlighten us.

SF does the Catholic church still consider you a Catholic?

 

[Phantasmal]

Yet we can provide links on how to resign from the church...

Fascinating.

Another link...

http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm

Did Rubio resign? that is the question, i rather doubt it, he was a child. If there was no formal resignation wouldn't t he still be considered Mormon?

They call people like this "fallen away" in the Catholic church, but we are still considered Catholic, by virtue of our baptism.

 

[Damocles]

Did Rubio resign? that is the question, i rather doubt it, he was a child. If there was no formal resignation wouldn't t he still be considered Mormon?

They call people like this "fallen away" in the Catholic church, but we are still considered Catholic, by virtue of our baptism.

Which would mean nothing to the argument here. First, the assertion was you "cannot" leave, but you can.

As I stated before. If I were to say that Obama is a Muslim, regardless of his later conversion to a form of Christianity, because you "can't leave Islam" I would rightly be called a bigot. The same applies here. Childhood "baptisms" notwithstanding, we either respect the men enough to understand and recognize their choices or we do not. Either we believe that these forms of attack are both groundless and wrong, or we approve of them for one side but not the other and are hypocrites...

And then, finally, the reality doesn't match the assertion of the original post. You really can resign from the religion, and without any fear of being killed for your decision or even of being counted as one of the "Saints"... You are Resigned, and therefore in need of redemption, but you are no longer a "member"...

Whether he resigned or not, if we believe that Obama is a Christian or are in some way a "bigot" then the same consideration must be made for Rubio. This discussion is itself a form of attack and a distraction.

I'd ask Jarod, how many jobs did this "save or" create?

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Which would mean nothing to the argument here. First, the assertion was you "cannot" leave, but you can.

As I stated before. If I were to say that Obama is a Muslim, regardless of his later conversion to a form of Christianity, because you "can't leave Islam" I would rightly be called a bigot. The same applies here. Childhood "baptisms" notwithstanding, we either respect the men enough to understand and recognize their choices or we do not. Either we believe that these forms of attack are both groundless and wrong, or we approve of them for one side but not the other and are hypocrites...

And then, finally, the reality doesn't match the assertion of the original post. You really can resign from the religion, and without any fear of being killed for your decision or even of being counted as one of the "Saints"... You are Resigned, and therefore in need of redemption, but you are no longer a "member"...

Whether he resigned or not, if we believe that Obama is a Christian or are in some way a "bigot" then the same consideration must be made for Rubio. This discussion is itself a form of attack and a distraction.

I'd ask Jarod, how many jobs did this "save or" create?

this sums up the entire stupid thread. jarod doesn't call obama a muslim. lame thread.

 

[Granule]

Holy shit Sealed for eternity with someone! I am breaking out in hives just thinking about it. That is way too much of a commitment for me.

No surprise, here, as 9 months would also be way too much of a commitment for you.

 

[christiefan915]

Did Rubio resign? that is the question, i rather doubt it, he was a child. If there was no formal resignation wouldn't t he still be considered Mormon?

They call people like this "fallen away" in the Catholic church, but we are still considered Catholic, by virtue of our baptism.

Exactly, if a person is born and baptized a Lutheran, for example, he's considered non-Catholic.

If a person is born and baptized a Catholic and stops practicing, he's considered a fallen away Catholic rather than a non-Catholic.

 

[Phantasmal]

Exactly, if a person is born and baptized a Lutheran, for example, he's considered non-Catholic.

If a person is born and baptized a Catholic and stops practicing, he's considered a fallen away Catholic rather than a non-Catholic.

Exactly, you don't have to be baptized, agin, and I believe it is the same with the LDS.

 

[Phantasmal]

Actually the FACT remains that there is a process to officially leave the church and you are simply repeating what you want to believe over actual information provided for you.

No, because just like the Catholic church, you would not be rebptized, you would still be considered belonging to that faith.

Baptism makes you a lifetime member.

 

[Damocles]

No, because just like the Catholic church, you would not be rebptized, you would still be considered belonging to that faith.

Baptism makes you a lifetime member.

However, with the Mormon church, if you returned, you would be rebaptized so that you could once again enter the fold.

I see you haven't bothered reading the links... or what has been said.

Zappa got excited because they keep your name, but simply didn't note that the same link also says that they list you as Resigned and that you no longer are one of the Saints... That you are considered like all us unwashed... able to access paradise, just not the best bits that are saved for those who were baptized.

 

[christiefan915]

I do not dispute any of that. It's plain as day to me that Joseph Smith was a lunatic, and BY a corrupt opportunist. If there is a hell, they're both roasting. That is my personal opinion. Mormons, however, would argue that while Joseph Smith was sealed to a multitude of women (including girls as young as 14), he did not consummate the marriages because they were exclusively "spiritual" in nature. Is there any evidence to counter their claim?

Furthermore, Joseph Smith didn't fuck a nine-year-old girl. The evidence for Muhammad being a pervert is overwhelming. But you continue to deny the facts and defend the pervert.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/pedophile.htm

Young had a total of 22 kids with his teenaged wives. Smith had 11 with his wife and allegedly a number with his concubines. There's still genetic research going on with his descendants.

There's no hard evidence that Muhammad had sex with a nine-year old. Answering-Islam is run by Christian evangelicals with the agenda of converting Muslims. This is in their About Us section: "We want that Muslims come to faith because they become convinced of the truth of the Gospel through the soundness of the material we present, and we want our Christian brothers and sisters to develop their convictions about their own faith and about Islam for the same reasons: Because it is true.

They aren't studying Islam with intellectual rigor and an open mind, therefore I'm dismissing their comments as opinion.

Btw, I thought you renounced Christianity so why are you using a Christian website as your source?

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

christie...i've given you the hadiths that prove muhammad slept with his 9 year old wife. good lord, why do you always ignore that which you don't agree with?

 

[Granule]

I refer you to the biographies of Joseph Smith and his approximately 28 wives, several of them age 14.

Actually it was more like 7 wives. Once you venture into the fields of anti-Mormonism, then the numbers shoot up to as far as the 50's.

 

[christiefan915]

Actually it was more like 7 wives. Once you venture into the fields of anti-Mormonism, then the numbers shoot up to as far as the 50's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_wives_of_Joseph_Smith

 

[Phantasmal]

Actually it was more like 7 wives. Once you venture into the fields of anti-Mormonism, then the numbers shoot up to as far as the 50's.

It is what Smith claimed, but he was a on man extrodinaire! There is testimony by others that he had any wives.

 

[Granule]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_wives_of_Joseph_Smith

Wikipedia. Nice. The online dictionary that anyone can edit. Do you have a more substantial cite, or do you want to dwell on the topic (Joseph Smith) that has more edits than any other?

 

[Granule]

It is what Smith claimed

Cite it. And use a source with a helluva lot more credibility than Wiki Edit Wizard.

 

[christiefan915]

Wikipedia. Nice. The online dictionary that anyone can edit. Do you have a more substantial cite, or do you want to dwell on the topic (Joseph Smith) that has more edits than any other?

Yes, lots more substantial sites such as those listed in the References you've chosen to ignore.

• Anderson, Richard Lloyd (1998), "The Prophet Joseph Smith and His Plural Wives", FARMS Review of Books (The Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship) 10 (2): 67–104, retrieved 2008-07-16.
• Boyack, Hazel Noble (1962), A Nobleman in Israel : A Biographical Sketch of Joseph Bates Noble, Pioneer to Utah in 1847, Pioneer Printing Company, pp. 21, 29.
• Brodie, Fawn (1971), No Man Knows My History, New York: Alfred A. Knopf, ISBN 0-679-73054-0.
• Clayton, William (1874), "Affidavit", in Jensen, Andrew, The Historical Record, Andrew Jenson, 1889, pp. 224–26.
• Compton, Todd (Summer 1996), "A Trajectory of Plurality: An Overview of Joseph Smith's Thirty-three Plural Wives", Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 29 (2): 1–38, retrieved 2009-07-28.
• Compton, Todd (1997), In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith, Salt Lake City: Signature Books, ISBN 1-56085-085-X.
• Kingsbury, Joseph C. (1886), "Affidavit", in Jensen, Andrew, The Historical Record, Andrew Jenson, 1889, pp. 226.
• Krakauer, Jon (2003), Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith, New York: Doubleday, pp. 90.
• Marquardt, H. Michael (2005), The Rise of Mormonism: 1816–1844, Grand Rapids, MI: Xulon Press, pp. 632, ISBN 1-59781-470-9.
• Newell, Linda King; Avery, Valeen Tippetts (1994), Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith (2d ed.), University of Illinois Press, pp. 89, 132, ISBN 0-252-06291-4, http://books.google.com/?id=UjHEhhqVu1UC&lpg=PA139&pg=PA89.
• Perego, Ugo A.; Myers, Natalie M.; Woodward, Scott R. (Summer 2005), "Reconstructing the Y-Chromosome of Joseph Smith, Jr.: Genealogical Applications" (PDF), Journal of Mormon History 32 (2).
• Quinn, D. Michael (1994), The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, Salt Lake City: Signature Books.
• Smith, Andrew F. (1997), The Saintly Scoundrel: The Life and Times of Dr. John Cook Bennett, Urbana and Chicago: University of Illinois Press, p. 141, ISBN 978-0-252-02282-1.
• Smith, George D. (Spring 1994), "Nauvoo Roots of Mormon Polygamy, 1841-46: A Preliminary Demographic Report", Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 27 (1), retrieved 2009-07-28.
• Van Wagoner, Richard S. (Summer 1986), "Sarah Pratt: The Shaping of an Apostate", Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 19 (2): 69–99.
• Whitmer, David (1887), An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Missouri, retrieved 2006-12-30.
• Wymetal, Wilhelm Ritter von (1886), Joseph Smith, the Prophet, His Family, and His Friends: A Study Based on Facts and Documents, Salt Lake City, UT: Tribune Printing and Publishing Company, pp. 60–61.