Double dip Conservatives have been praying for?

Jarod said:
Its true, the party of "personal responsability" runs the economy deep into the ground then supports a necessary bailout and blames the new Democratic administration....


HA, Pathetic!
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But, but, the bailout was supposed to work, according to you liberals...
 
Jarod said:
Its true, the party of "personal responsability" runs the economy deep into the ground then supports a necessary bailout and blames the new Democratic administration....


HA, Pathetic!
Click to expand...

A video of the facts isn't good enough for you....???
Can't believe your lyin' eyes?
Too much Koolade?

Skull a might too thick ?
 
NigelTufnel said:
The policy wonks in the administration knew that the stimulus bill was not enough but the political folks made the decision that what was enough was not attainable. Why the political folks then went ahead and made all sorts of rosy predictions about how great things would be once the stimulus bill passed when they knew it was not enough to do the job is a complete mystery to me.
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They knew that? So when there wrong they're right because you know how they really felt even though they won't admit it? Crazy, fact is Keynesians always think there plans will work and over and over, in countries across the globe they fail to meet their predictions and when called out they give the same sorry excuse "It would have been worse"
 
Onceler said:
I don't think it will. I think there are bound to be some lulls in the recovery as we move forward, but I don't see another major drop.

But that's just me; I know there are those who disagree. Frankly, I didn't expect us to be even close to where we currently are when the year started...
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So you didn't take Obama at his word? Interesting.
 
Jarod said:
When is this double dip in the economy that the Conservatives have been praying for going to happen?
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When are you ever going to begin a conversation that doesn't start with the Jarod "standard" straw man?

Tell me! Which conservative has prayed for a second downturn?

I personally believe that one is likely as long as the uptick rule remains only a conversation in the Congress. I certainly hope it doesn't happen though.
 
Obfuscate said:
They knew that? So when there wrong they're right because you know how they really felt even though they won't admit it? Crazy, fact is Keynesians always think there plans will work and over and over, in countries across the globe they fail to meet their predictions and when called out they give the same sorry excuse "It would have been worse"
Click to expand...


Christina Romer predicted an output gap of about $2.5 trillion in 2009-11 (likely to be in the $4 trillion range now) and recommended a stimulus of $1.2 trillion to help plug the gap. The political folks though $1.2 trillion was a non-starter and instead pushed a $890 billion package that ended up being $600 billion, about half of what Romer thought would be necessary.

There is plenty of reporting out there on this subject.
 
Romer also has a study showing tax cuts are about 4 times more effective than Government spending.

How does what any of what you said have anything to do with Geithner, Summers and Obama predictions on the bill that was passed not leading to over 8% unemployment? How does the fact that Romer thought it should be bigger affect those predictions?
 
Obfuscate said:
They knew that? So when there wrong they're right because you know how they really felt even though they won't admit it? Crazy, fact is Keynesians always think there plans will work and over and over, in countries across the globe they fail to meet their predictions and when called out they give the same sorry excuse "It would have been worse"
Click to expand...


Please name any developed country on the planet that followed the Con/austrian school of economic advice, and slashed public spending and outlays and followed through with more deregulation of corporations....and what the consequence of those actions were.


Oh wait....you can't name any countries like that? Odd, why is it that there's zero proof that your rightwing Austrian school of economics has ever worked, yet you continue to believe in it like a child believes in the tooth fairy.

What kind of job do you have, and in what universe do you live, where you can assert that something will work without ever having a shred of real world evidence or empirical justification that your theories are anything more than mental masturbation cooked up in rightwing editorial columns?

The fact is, every single developed country on the planet employed economic stimulus that, in one way or another, is a classic Keynesian response to a global meltdown. At this time last year, the consensus appeared to be we were staring at the abyss of another great republican depression. Another repubican great depression that we appear to have dodged.

Is your contention that you know more about economics that every single government, every single ministry of finance, and every single global economic institution on the planet?

I personally don't think this recovery is going to be robust in the short term. GDP and corporate profits are a shit measure for the health of the economy as it pertains to ordinary people. Unemployment is probably going to be high for a long time to come. And Obama's stimulus was most certainly flawed in its application and scope.

But, we averted a meltdown, and nobody, no government, and no finance ministry on the planet is adopting your fringe rightwing Austrian school of economics.

Any idea on why that is?
 
Obfuscate said:
Romer also has a study showing tax cuts are about 4 times more effective than Government spending.

How does what any of what you said have anything to do with Geithner, Summers and Obama predictions on the bill that was passed not leading to over 8% unemployment? How does the fact that Romer thought it should be bigger affect those predictions?
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First, Romer does not have a study showing tax cuts are 4 times more effective than Government spending. Romer has a study that is often misrepresented by right-wing supply siders as saying that. Apparently, the Austrian types enjoy engaging in similar misrepresentation.

Second, if you read my post more carefully you would see that it is a complete mystery to me why the political folks (including Geithne, Summers and Obama) spoke so cherrily about the final stimulus bill which was half of what Romer was suggesting.
 
First off to Cypress and Nigel, I'm a Neo-Classical Chicago school Monetarist not an Austrian although Hayeks theory on interest rate manipulation from central banks that won him his Nobel prize seem to be pretty evident today. The idea that Adam Smith, Ricardo, Irving Fisher and Milton Friedman ect have no influence nor there theories have been tested is absurd.
 
Jarod said:
When is this double dip in the economy that the Conservatives have been praying for going to happen?
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1) no one is praying for it, but given the state of the economy, it is very likely that we slip into the second dip.

2) given the pricing on the market right now, a move up from here would have to be justified by increasing earnings. We probably have one more quarter at most of good year over year numbers (as the fourth quarter last year and first two months this year were pretty harsh). After that... it is going to be tougher.

3) My guess... we have about a 7-10% correction from here (which would knock us down to around 9300) then a dead cat back to 10k by the end of the year, then the double dip late first quarter.
 
Onceler said:
I don't think it will. I think there are bound to be some lulls in the recovery as we move forward, but I don't see another major drop.

But that's just me; I know there are those who disagree. Frankly, I didn't expect us to be even close to where we currently are when the year started...
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That is because fundamentally it doesn't make sense for us to have come this far.
 
Yurt said:
jarod.....

name one republican who has PRAYED for double digits...

else admit you're a hack
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That's silly. There are certainly conservatives who hope the stimulus doesn't work, and who hope the economy fails, at least through the next election, just as their were liberals who did the same in the Bush admin. It's as old as politics.

On this board, it's fairly easy to tell when certain posters are happy with bad economic news. They'll never come out and say they're praying or hoping for it, but it's fairly obvious...
 
Onceler said:
That's silly. There are certainly conservatives who hope the stimulus doesn't work, and who hope the economy fails, at least through the next election, just as their were liberals who did the same in the Bush admin. It's as old as politics.

On this board, it's fairly easy to tell when certain posters are happy with bad economic news. They'll never come out and say they're praying or hoping for it, but it's fairly obvious...
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fair enough....

i was hoping jarod could speak for himself....just as you said to damo last damo made a post after you asked it of me.....

hypocrite much?

btw...i do like your opinion....it is your sometimes hypocrisy that is bothersome....
 
I haven't seen one even mention that they are hoping for the typical boom from this kind of recession. I'm a greedy bastard, I'm hoping for booms under dems and republicans.
 
Cypress said:
Please name any developed country on the planet that followed the Con/austrian school of economic advice, and slashed public spending and outlays and followed through with more deregulation of corporations....and what the consequence of those actions were.


Oh wait....you can't name any countries like that? Odd, why is it that there's zero proof that your rightwing Austrian school of economics has ever worked, yet you continue to believe in it like a child believes in the tooth fairy.

What kind of job do you have, and in what universe do you live, where you can assert that something will work without ever having a shred of real world evidence or empirical justification that your theories are anything more than mental masturbation cooked up in rightwing editorial columns?

The fact is, every single developed country on the planet employed economic stimulus that, in one way or another, is a classic Keynesian response to a global meltdown. At this time last year, the consensus appeared to be we were staring at the abyss of another great republican depression. Another repubican great depression that we appear to have dodged.

Is your contention that you know more about economics that every single government, every single ministry of finance, and every single global economic institution on the planet?

I personally don't think this recovery is going to be robust in the short term. GDP and corporate profits are a shit measure for the health of the economy as it pertains to ordinary people. Unemployment is probably going to be high for a long time to come. And Obama's stimulus was most certainly flawed in its application and scope.

But, we averted a meltdown, and nobody, no government, and no finance ministry on the planet is adopting your fringe rightwing Austrian school of economics.

Any idea on why that is?
Click to expand...

Those in power like the ability to create money out of thin air. It's a totalitarian power they won't give up, and they pay economists to lie about it's effectiveness for society at large.

Keynesianism is a reality warping mindfuck, the lynchpin in the global banking totalitarian cartel.
 
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