Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
You destroy the neocon argument yourself: It's much more complex than the simplistic chant the neo-uglicans recite: Deregulation = more jobs. Its just not true, the two are orthogonal to one another.
You destroy the neocon argument yourself: It's much more complex than the simplistic chant the neo-uglicans recite: Deregulation = more jobs. Its just not true, the two are orthogonal to one another.
Don't advertise your ignorance and lack of common logic.
Deregulation can do many things and can be used to achieve many numerous outcomes, including stimulating the job market.......
When banking and lending regulations were loosened, home ownership grew, homes were built, and jobs were created in thousands of markets.....thats just undeniable
The houses didn't appear out of the ether.....shingles didn't just appear on roofs....sewer and water and elect. lines didn't just appear by magic.....
Deregulation of the oil industry and putting the brakes on the EPA will have the same results in other industry and job markets.....its common sense.
Just as other deregulation will not have any effect on jobs but may stimulate other things.
And then when Obama was elected, and Democrats won the House and Senate, and enjoyed an overwhelming majority of 60+ votes, the economy still sunk to new lows, unemployment when ballistic and it was all blamed on a man that was not longer President, a man no longer in any position to affect law or policy......amazingly, Obama and the Democrats were blameless for what was happening during their reign of do nothing......they owned the government, lock, stock and barrel...yet they weren't responsible for anything......
They caused the debt to skyrocket and blamed Bush.....
They extended the existing tax law and blamed Bush......
They took over private industry and blamed Bush....
They gave taxpayers money to unions and blamed Bush......
They halted oil production in the Gulf and blamed Bush for the damage it caused....
They gave billions to foreign countrys so they could produce oil for China and blamed Bush for our stagnant economy
But of course, Zap's head was up his rectum during all this and missed it, all he heard was "Its Bush's fault".......
[h=4]From WIKI
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac[/h] In 2003, while the ranking minority member on the Financial Services Committee, Frank opposed a Bush administration proposal, in response to accounting scandals, for transferring oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from Congress and the Department of Housing and Urban Development to a new agency that would be created within the Treasury Department. The proposal, supported by the head of Fannie Mae, reflected the administration's belief that Congress "neither has the tools, nor the stature" for adequate oversight. Frank stated, "These two entities ...are not facing any kind of financial crisis ... The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."[SUP][46][/SUP] In 2003, Frank also stated what has been called his "famous dice roll":[SUP][47][/SUP] "I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness [in the regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac] that we have in the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Office of Thrift Supervision. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidised housing."[SUP][48][/SUP] In July 2008, Frank said in an CNBC interview, "I think this is a case where Fannie and Freddie are fundamentally sound, that they are not in danger of going under. They’re not the best investments these days from the long-term standpoint going back. I think they are in good shape going forward."[SUP][49][/SUP]
Frank was criticized by conservative organizations for campaign contributions totaling $42,350 between 1989 and 2008. Bill Sammon, the Washington managing editor for Fox News Channel, claimed the donations from Fannie and Freddie influenced his support of their lending programs, and said that Frank did not play a strong enough role in reforming the institutions in the years leading up to the Economic crisis of 2008.[SUP][50][/SUP] In 2006 a Fannie Mae representative stated in SEC filings that they "did not participate in large amounts of these non-traditional mortgages in 2004 and 2005."[SUP][51][/SUP] In response to criticism, Frank said, "In 2004, it was Bush who started to push Fannie and Freddie into subprime mortgages, because they were boasting about how they were expanding homeownership for low-income people. And I said at the time, 'Hey — (a) this is going to jeopardize their profitability, but (b) it's going to put people in homes they can't afford, and they're gonna lose them.'"[SUP][7][/SUP]
In 2009 Frank responded to what he called "wholly inaccurate efforts by Republicans to blame Democrats, and [me] in particular" for the subprime mortgage crisis, which is linked to the financial crisis of 2007–2009.[SUP][52][/SUP] He outlined his efforts to reform these institutions and add regulations, but met resistance from Republicans, with the main exception being a bill with Republican Mike Oxley that died because of opposition from President Bush.[SUP][52][/SUP] The 2005 bill included Frank objectives, which were to impose tighter regulation of Fannie and Freddie and new funds for rental housing. Frank and Mike Oxley achieved broad bipartisan support for the bill in the Financial Services Committee, and it passed the House. But the Senate never voted on the measure, in part because President Bush was likely to veto it. "If it had passed, that would have been one of the ways we could have reined in the bowling ball going downhill called housing," Oxley told Frank. In an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal, Lawrence B. Lindsey, a former economic adviser to President George W. Bush, wrote that Frank "is the only politician I know who has argued that we needed tighter rules that intentionally produce fewer homeowners and more renters."[SUP][7][/SUP] Once control shifted to the Democrats, Frank was able to help guide both the Federal Housing Reform Act (H.R. 1427) and the Mortgage Reform and Anti-Predatory Lending Act (H.R. 3915) to passage in 2007.[SUP][52][/SUP] Frank also said that the Republican-led Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999, which repealed part of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 and removed the wall between commercial and investment banks, contributed to the financial meltdown.[SUP][52][/SUP] Frank further stated that "during twelve years of Republican rule no reform was adopted regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In 2007, a few months after I became the Chairman, the House passed a strong reform bill; we sought to get the [Bush] administration's approval to include it in the economic stimulus legislation in January 2008; and finally got it passed and onto President Bush's desk in July 2008. Moreover, "we were able to adopt it in nineteen months, and we could have done it much quicker if the [Bush] administration had cooperated."[SUP][53][/SUP]
[h=4][edit] Subprime Mortgage crisis[/h]
Congressmen Ellison & Frank at Financial Services Field Hearing on Home Foreclosures in Minneapolis.
As former chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, beginning in 2007, Frank was "at the center of power".[SUP][17][/SUP] Frank has been a critic of aspects of the Federal Reserve system, partnering with some Republicans in opposition to some policies.[SUP][54][/SUP] Frank says that he and Republican Congressman Ron Paul "first bonded because we were both conspicuous nonworshipers at the Temple of the Fed and of the High Priest Alan Greenspan."[SUP][54][/SUP]
Frank has been involved in mortgage foreclosure bailout issues.[SUP][55][/SUP] In 2008 Frank supported passage of the American Housing Rescue & Foreclosure Prevention Act, intended to protect thousands of homeowners from foreclosure.[SUP][17][/SUP] This law, H.R. 3221, is considered one of the most important and complex issues on which he worked.[SUP][17][/SUP][SUP][56][/SUP] In an August 2007 op-ed piece in Financial Times, Frank wrote, "In the debate between those who believe in essentially unregulated markets and others who hold that reasonable regulation diminishes market excesses without inhibiting their basic function, the subprime situation unfortunately provides ammunition for the latter view."[SUP][57][/SUP] Frank was also instrumental in the passage of H.R. 5244, the Credit Cardholders' Bill of Rights Act of 2008, a measure that drew praise from editorial boards and consumer advocates.[SUP][58][/SUP][SUP][59][/SUP][SUP][60][/SUP] In 2007 Frank co-sponsored legislation to reform the Section 202 refinancing program, which is for affordable housing for the elderly, and Section 811 disabled programs.[SUP][61][/SUP] Frank has been a chief advocate of the National Housing Trust Fund,[SUP][7][/SUP] which was created as part of the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 and was the first affordable housing program to be enacted by the Congress since 1990.[SUP][62][/SUP]
During the subprime mortgage crisis, Frank was characterized as "a key deal-maker, an unlikely bridge between his party's left-wing base and [...] free market conservatives" in the Bush administration.[SUP][63][/SUP][SUP][64][/SUP] Hank Paulson, the U.S. Treasury Secretary for the Bush administration, said he enjoyed Frank's penchant for brokering deals, "he is looking to get things done and make a difference, he focuses on areas of agreement and tries to build on those."[SUP][63][/SUP]
The New York Times noted that the Federal Housing Administration's crucial role in the nation's housing market, providing low-down-payment mortgages during the crisis of 2007–2010 when no mortgages would otherwise have been available, "helped avert full-scale disaster" by helping people purchase or refinance homes and thereby putting a floor under falling home prices. However, due to the tighter flow of credit from the banks, total FHA loans in 2009 were four times that of 2006, raising concern that year that if the economy were to dip back into recession, more Fed funds could be required to keep those loans afloat. Frank's response was that the additional defaults — 2.2% more of the total portfolio in 2009 than the year before — were worth the economic stabilization of the broader policy, noting "It was an effort to keep prices from falling too fast." In that context, he opined, "I don't think it's a bad thing that the bad loans occurred." In fact, the unprecedented number of loans made since 2008 were noted to be performing far better than those in the prior two years.[SUP][65][/SUP]
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac[/h] In 2003, while the ranking minority member on the Financial Services Committee, Frank opposed a Bush administration proposal, in response to accounting scandals, for transferring oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from Congress and the Department of Housing and Urban Development to a new agency that would be created within the Treasury Department. The proposal, supported by the head of Fannie Mae, reflected the administration's belief that Congress "neither has the tools, nor the stature" for adequate oversight. Frank stated, "These two entities ...are not facing any kind of financial crisis ... The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."[SUP][46][/SUP] In 2003, Frank also stated what has been called his "famous dice roll":[SUP][47][/SUP] "I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness [in the regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac] that we have in the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Office of Thrift Supervision. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidised housing."[SUP][48][/SUP] In July 2008, Frank said in an CNBC interview, "I think this is a case where Fannie and Freddie are fundamentally sound, that they are not in danger of going under. They’re not the best investments these days from the long-term standpoint going back. I think they are in good shape going forward."[SUP][49][/SUP]
Frank was criticized by conservative organizations for campaign contributions totaling $42,350 between 1989 and 2008. Bill Sammon, the Washington managing editor for Fox News Channel, claimed the donations from Fannie and Freddie influenced his support of their lending programs, and said that Frank did not play a strong enough role in reforming the institutions in the years leading up to the Economic crisis of 2008.[SUP][50][/SUP] In 2006 a Fannie Mae representative stated in SEC filings that they "did not participate in large amounts of these non-traditional mortgages in 2004 and 2005."[SUP][51][/SUP] In response to criticism, Frank said, "In 2004, it was Bush who started to push Fannie and Freddie into subprime mortgages, because they were boasting about how they were expanding homeownership for low-income people. And I said at the time, 'Hey — (a) this is going to jeopardize their profitability, but (b) it's going to put people in homes they can't afford, and they're gonna lose them.'"[SUP][7][/SUP]
In 2009 Frank responded to what he called "wholly inaccurate efforts by Republicans to blame Democrats, and [me] in particular" for the subprime mortgage crisis, which is linked to the financial crisis of 2007–2009.[SUP][52][/SUP] He outlined his efforts to reform these institutions and add regulations, but met resistance from Republicans, with the main exception being a bill with Republican Mike Oxley that died because of opposition from President Bush.[SUP][52][/SUP] The 2005 bill included Frank objectives, which were to impose tighter regulation of Fannie and Freddie and new funds for rental housing. Frank and Mike Oxley achieved broad bipartisan support for the bill in the Financial Services Committee, and it passed the House. But the Senate never voted on the measure, in part because President Bush was likely to veto it. "If it had passed, that would have been one of the ways we could have reined in the bowling ball going downhill called housing," Oxley told Frank. In an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal, Lawrence B. Lindsey, a former economic adviser to President George W. Bush, wrote that Frank "is the only politician I know who has argued that we needed tighter rules that intentionally produce fewer homeowners and more renters."[SUP][7][/SUP] Once control shifted to the Democrats, Frank was able to help guide both the Federal Housing Reform Act (H.R. 1427) and the Mortgage Reform and Anti-Predatory Lending Act (H.R. 3915) to passage in 2007.[SUP][52][/SUP] Frank also said that the Republican-led Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999, which repealed part of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 and removed the wall between commercial and investment banks, contributed to the financial meltdown.[SUP][52][/SUP] Frank further stated that "during twelve years of Republican rule no reform was adopted regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In 2007, a few months after I became the Chairman, the House passed a strong reform bill; we sought to get the [Bush] administration's approval to include it in the economic stimulus legislation in January 2008; and finally got it passed and onto President Bush's desk in July 2008. Moreover, "we were able to adopt it in nineteen months, and we could have done it much quicker if the [Bush] administration had cooperated."[SUP][53][/SUP]
[h=4][edit] Subprime Mortgage crisis[/h]
Congressmen Ellison & Frank at Financial Services Field Hearing on Home Foreclosures in Minneapolis.
As former chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, beginning in 2007, Frank was "at the center of power".[SUP][17][/SUP] Frank has been a critic of aspects of the Federal Reserve system, partnering with some Republicans in opposition to some policies.[SUP][54][/SUP] Frank says that he and Republican Congressman Ron Paul "first bonded because we were both conspicuous nonworshipers at the Temple of the Fed and of the High Priest Alan Greenspan."[SUP][54][/SUP]
Frank has been involved in mortgage foreclosure bailout issues.[SUP][55][/SUP] In 2008 Frank supported passage of the American Housing Rescue & Foreclosure Prevention Act, intended to protect thousands of homeowners from foreclosure.[SUP][17][/SUP] This law, H.R. 3221, is considered one of the most important and complex issues on which he worked.[SUP][17][/SUP][SUP][56][/SUP] In an August 2007 op-ed piece in Financial Times, Frank wrote, "In the debate between those who believe in essentially unregulated markets and others who hold that reasonable regulation diminishes market excesses without inhibiting their basic function, the subprime situation unfortunately provides ammunition for the latter view."[SUP][57][/SUP] Frank was also instrumental in the passage of H.R. 5244, the Credit Cardholders' Bill of Rights Act of 2008, a measure that drew praise from editorial boards and consumer advocates.[SUP][58][/SUP][SUP][59][/SUP][SUP][60][/SUP] In 2007 Frank co-sponsored legislation to reform the Section 202 refinancing program, which is for affordable housing for the elderly, and Section 811 disabled programs.[SUP][61][/SUP] Frank has been a chief advocate of the National Housing Trust Fund,[SUP][7][/SUP] which was created as part of the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 and was the first affordable housing program to be enacted by the Congress since 1990.[SUP][62][/SUP]
During the subprime mortgage crisis, Frank was characterized as "a key deal-maker, an unlikely bridge between his party's left-wing base and [...] free market conservatives" in the Bush administration.[SUP][63][/SUP][SUP][64][/SUP] Hank Paulson, the U.S. Treasury Secretary for the Bush administration, said he enjoyed Frank's penchant for brokering deals, "he is looking to get things done and make a difference, he focuses on areas of agreement and tries to build on those."[SUP][63][/SUP]
The New York Times noted that the Federal Housing Administration's crucial role in the nation's housing market, providing low-down-payment mortgages during the crisis of 2007–2010 when no mortgages would otherwise have been available, "helped avert full-scale disaster" by helping people purchase or refinance homes and thereby putting a floor under falling home prices. However, due to the tighter flow of credit from the banks, total FHA loans in 2009 were four times that of 2006, raising concern that year that if the economy were to dip back into recession, more Fed funds could be required to keep those loans afloat. Frank's response was that the additional defaults — 2.2% more of the total portfolio in 2009 than the year before — were worth the economic stabilization of the broader policy, noting "It was an effort to keep prices from falling too fast." In that context, he opined, "I don't think it's a bad thing that the bad loans occurred." In fact, the unprecedented number of loans made since 2008 were noted to be performing far better than those in the prior two years.[SUP][65][/SUP]
Your debate skills are astounding..........looks like I win again.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
It was a bubble you fucktard.
The only bubble you know about is the one growing on your neck......
So what caused this "bubble" fool...?.....it just appeared one day from excess gas in the atmosphere ?
Well, why the fuck ask you when I can just tell you....the short version....
The real estate bubble was caused by the Federal Reserve and government intervention via Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSE)
and the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA).
The low interest rates, GSE's and the CRA caused the sub-prime borrowing to skyrocket and the money (90% of it ) came from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The result was the housing boom and housing bust and related casualties......
So what caused this "bubble" fool...?.....it just appeared one day from excess gas in the atmosphere ?
Well, why the fuck ask you when I can just tell you....the short version....
The real estate bubble was caused by the Federal Reserve and government intervention via Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSE)
and the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA).
The low interest rates, GSE's and the CRA caused the sub-prime borrowing to skyrocket and the money (90% of it ) came from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The result was the housing boom and housing bust and related casualties......
Damn, you are retarded Bravo. The "bubble" was an illusion employed as a means of distracting the people long enough to move jobs and wealth out of the country without the people realising what was happening until it was too late to stop it.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
Government is to blame too. Fascism is an unholy allliance between government and business. They both conspire to screw us little people.
Bankers were not reluctant to comply in fact, they still used fraud to push out even more bad paper.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
the bubble was an illusion? it certainly was not. it was quite real.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
Right, the bubble was real, actual gains from deregulation were not, except for bailed out bankers. The gains were real for them, but an illusion for everyone else. This bifurcation of de facto reality cannot continue.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
that and wallstreet...
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
You pinheads need to get together.......
Pinhead AssZombie says the "housing boom" was a bubble
and
Pinhead Dune says the bubble was an an illusion, a mirage, an imaginary event, which must mean there was no housing boom.....
(Does that mean the whole crisis didn't really happen and unemployment is at 4% again....)
Why don't you two pinheads argue it out and come to a consensus....
Pinhead AssZombie says the "housing boom" was a bubble
and
Pinhead Dune says the bubble was an an illusion, a mirage, an imaginary event, which must mean there was no housing boom.....
(Does that mean the whole crisis didn't really happen and unemployment is at 4% again....)
Why don't you two pinheads argue it out and come to a consensus....
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
You're so pathetic.
"the bubble was real, actual gains from deregulation were not"
Really ?......all those millions of houses just appeared out of thin air.......no one was really working on them....?
The concrete, wood, sinks, stones, windows, pipes, roads, sewers, driveways, stoves, tiles, counter tops, cabinets, nails, etc. etc. etc. etc. just appear by magic and no workers were involved......workers with paying jobs.....
Damn.....well, if thats the case, you got me sonny.....you win....no actual gains.....it was all smoke and mirrors.....Freddie and Fannie Mae are in great shape, just like Barnie Fag claimed.......alls right with the world.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
So are you saying there was no housing bubble?
Have Dune explain my post to you......your reading comprehension is obviously zero
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
Its commonly acknowledged that there was housing bubble and it burst, and now the housing market is depressed. do you disagree with this bit of general knowledge?