“Doctor: Monkeypox is actually shingles, a side effect of the Covid vaccines.”

[Kafka]

Says the guy ignoring the article presented in response to his article.

I told you it was behind a paywall. Maybe you should read closer.

What I have to say about Fauci is simply what I believe based on what the science says

And what "science" are you citing here?

when compared to what he said about this subject. I get that you like articles that present you with "facts" that meet your bias

My article was not behind a paywall. Try reading it and tell me which thing you disagree with most. If you can.

and do not like the NY Times article that doesn't fit your confirmation bias,

Again, it was behind a paywall. I honestly don't know how much clearer I can be for you. I didn't read it because I don't subscribe.

but it doesn't change the reality that my opinion is based on something other than my "feels" as you claim.

Please forgive me here but I suspect you have ZERO technical ability in the field of virology or the sciences in general. So how do you KNOW you are going after something other than your own "feels"?

I believe you should obtain information from sources that are not within your echo chamber and instead actually challenge your mind. While I would always love to believe what folks like Fauci tell me, what I have learned in this lifetime is that like every other human out there even folks like Fauci lie.

The funny thing is, you lot never heard of Fauci before 2020. He's a giant in the field of public health and has been for about 40 years now. This whole Trump-inspired "Fauci lies" approach is laughable on its face.

But it's easy for folks with no scientific background to think scientists lie when they say things that don't make them happy.

I've seen it so many times and in pretty much every case what the scientific illiterate thought was a lie was nothing of the sort. We've seen it with climate change, we've seen it with ozone, we've seen it ad nauseam.

The worst part is that those of you who don't do science for a living don't seem to understand that science is the discipline of LEARNING. Not all information that comes out at the beginning of a disaster will be accurate.

These people who slave for YOUR BENEFIT are not lying to you. They are doing their level best.

Unless, of course, whatever it is YOU do for a living is made up of liars and corrupt people. Is that it? If that's all you see in YOUR field then I guess I can understand why you might see it in other fields.

It's just not real, though.

 

[Damocles]

I told you it was behind a paywall. Maybe you should read closer.



And what "science" are you citing here?



My article was not behind a paywall. Try reading it and tell me which thing you disagree with most. If you can.



Again, it was behind a paywall. I honestly don't know how much clearer I can be for you. I didn't read it because I don't subscribe.



Please forgive me here but I suspect you have ZERO technical ability in the field of virology or the sciences in general. So how do you KNOW you are going after something other than your own "feels"?



The funny thing is, you lot never heard of Fauci before 2020. He's a giant in the field of public health and has been for about 40 years now. This whole Trump-inspired "Fauci lies" approach is laughable on its face.

But it's easy for folks with no scientific background to think scientists lie when they say things that don't make them happy.

I've seen it so many times and in pretty much every case what the scientific illiterate thought was a lie was nothing of the sort. We've seen it with climate change, we've seen it with ozone, we've seen it ad nauseam.

The worst part is that those of you who don't do science for a living don't seem to understand that science is the discipline of LEARNING. Not all information that comes out at the beginning of a disaster will be accurate.

These people who slave for YOUR BENEFIT are not lying to you. They are doing their level best.

Unless, of course, whatever it is YOU do for a living is made up of liars and corrupt people. Is that it? If that's all you see in YOUR field then I guess I can understand why you might see it in other fields.

It's just not real, though.

LOL.

Says the guy that ignores articles that he doesn't like even though they are more recent and based in science he doesn't want to hear about.

I'm good. Again, I posted the article to show that my opinion wasn't based on "feels" not to "prove" anything. The article simply states it is more likely to have come from the Wuhan Lab than any other source, and gives DNA results, etc. to back it up. This is what I base my opinion on, not on "feels" which is what you claimed about me.

I get that you want to believe that I am just too ignorant to see the awesomeness of the less recent science that is based on confirmation bias and that you feel like I just don't understand things. I simply point out to you that you should get more sources and maybe you can have a healthier opinion of the people you are speaking to.

Personally I believe that your opinion on this is based on confirmation bias, that any article I present that speaks against it will be ignored regardless of who wrote it, and that you will continue to say things like this last post...

As I said, I get that you want it to be your way so badly that you will ignore any information that deposes your belief system regardless of information given.

 

[Kafka]

LOL.

Says the guy that ignores articles that he doesn't like even though they are more recent and based in science he doesn't want to hear about.

What article did I ignore? The one behind a paywall that I cannot see???

(You DO know what I mean by a paywall, right? I mean you DO understand what I'm saying, right?)

The article simply states it is more likely to have come from the Wuhan Lab than any other source, and gives DNA results, etc. to back it up. This is what I base my opinion on, not on "feels" which is what you claimed about me.

I just realized I only provided the summary of the article Alwine et al. Here's the actual article HERE

So let's go through the SCIENCE, shall we? Just a couple of the data points around the "Lab leak hypothesis"

loss of the furin cleavage site in the spike protein during cell culture adaptation of initial isolates of SARS-CoV-2.​

Response: early isolates of SARS-CoV-2 show the furin cleavage site to be intact, arguing against introduction into humans after laboratory cell culture. ibid. (more detail in the actual article as to why this is the case)

initial SARS-CoV-2 isolates replicate poorly in traditional laboratory models.​

Response: Traditional laboratory experiments would likely have included the adaptation of a virus in common laboratory animal models such as mice to study it with ease. Thus, a laboratory-derived virus released into the population would reasonably be expected to carry these adaptive markers in their genomes. However, early isolates of SARS-CoV-2 did not carry mutations that confer adaptation to common animal models, such as mutations in the receptor binding domain of spike that improve viral replication in mice (4, 5). ibid.

​

Don't worry, I don't expect you to actually read this stuff, it's pretty dry. But THIS is what real science looks like. THIS isn't the kind of stuff that moves newspaper Op-EDs.

Personally I believe that your opinion on this is based on confirmation bias, that any article I present that speaks against it will be ignored regardless of who wrote it, and that you will continue to say things like this last post...

Given that you are going the NYT to address issues around furin cleavages, spike proteins and adaptations found in actual bio labs would indicate that your opinion is predicated mostly on pop-science.

Which is fine.

As I said, I get that you want it to be your way so badly that you will ignore any information that deposes your belief system regardless of information given.

The funny part is, I'm not actually defending either hypothesis. I am leaning against the lab leak just because the science seems to be in that direction, but I'm also MORE THAN HAPPY to see real data of lab leak.

It would NOT be the first time a bio or bio-weapons thing got out into the wild. So there's no reason to outright dismiss it.

But you and I both know why the "Lab leak" hypothesis came up in the first place. And it had nothing to do with science. It was Trump's saber rattling against China as he was navigating trade issues with them. That's why he insisted on calling it the China Virus.

If it did come from a lab, then fuck them. Make them pay. But don't just assume it true.

Follow the science.

That means getting more familiar with furin cleavages and spike proteins.

Good luck. Biochem can get hairy. At least the class I took back in college was.

 

[Concart]

They didn't seem to die, they seem to still be in charge and their protest problem seems to have disappeared. Folks, like you, that cared about it in 2019 do not seem to care about it any longer...

It cost the Chinese economy billions and the estimated death rate based on a CDC study was 1100 per 100,000. Still less than under the orange idiot but numerically massive. So yes, they died, they suffered massive economic damage and an intentional release is a kooky af conspiracy theory. What’folks’ am I. Do tell.

 

[Damocles]

It cost the Chinese economy billions and the estimated death rate based on a CDC study was 1100 per 100,000. Still less than under the orange idiot but numerically massive. So yes, they died, they suffered massive economic damage and an intentional release is a kooky af conspiracy theory. What’folks’ am I. Do tell.

I don't think they have a problem with that. Considering the "one child" restriction, the clamp down and starvation of whole areas of China during the pandemic, and other evidence (including the billions they spent on tenements that have no people and are falling down). Like all totalitarian regimes they seem willing to kill millions in order to get their subjects in order to stay in charge.

Yeah, I really believe, as shown by history, that a totalitarian government born on the deaths of hundreds of millions of Chinese do not fear killing a few million more to stay in power.

 

[Concart]

I don't think they have a problem with that. Considering the "one child" restriction, the clamp down and starvation of whole areas of China during the pandemic, and other evidence (including the billions they spent on tenements that have no people and are falling down). Like all totalitarian regimes they seem willing to kill millions in order to get their subjects in order to stay in charge.

Yeah, I really believe, as shown by history, that a totalitarian government born on the deaths of hundreds of millions of Chinese do not fear killing a few million more to stay in power.

Im pretty sure they had an issue with the economic impact. It was not an intentional release. I’m sorry but that utterly defies logic.

 

[Damocles]

Im pretty sure they had an issue with the economic impact. It was not an intentional release. I’m sorry but that utterly defies logic.

It simply does not. The economic impact was global and did not change their position on the world stage, and it served to end protests, take them out of the news, they suddenly had US government allies spreading the "it wasn't the lab" lies in their behalf. For a totalitarian regime there was nothing but win.

Now, what defies logic is President Braindead rejecting real information that placed that pandemic at the Wuhan Lab. Whether you believe it was "accidentally" released, or released in what they believed was a "controlled" fashion, it is in reality, according to the science, the most likely culprit of ground zero of this disease.

 

[Concart]

It simply does not. The economic impact was global and did not change their position on the world stage, and it served to end protests, take them out of the news, they suddenly had US government allies spreading the "it wasn't the lab" lies in their behalf. For a totalitarian regime there was nothing but win.

Now, what defies logic is President Braindead rejecting real information that placed that pandemic at the Wuhan Lab. Whether you believe it was "accidentally" released, or released in what they believed was a "controlled" fashion, it is in reality, according to the science, the most likely culprit of ground zero of this disease.

Only in your conspiracy theorized mind. It makes no sense. Sorry but it’s just beyond stupid. What next, are they going to nuke themselves? Please.

 

[Kafka]

Only in your conspiracy theorized mind. It makes no sense. Sorry but it’s just beyond stupid. What next, are they going to nuke themselves? Please.

I would personally be OK if the data showed that it was an accidental lab leak. That's common enough that it wouldn't be a complete surprise.

But at the end of the day real science has to be invoked. Not stuff that will fly in a NYT op ed. You will note that after I introduced some of the actual detailed science that part of the conversation stopped.

The fact of the matter is we really don't know one way or the other. The answers may never be known. But if we want to go down the road of actively BLAMING another country (one we have tenuous relations with) we had better damn well be sure of it.

This "China Virus" shit has done nothing but show us to be the petulant bigots we so easily slip into when we are mad. Sure China has a LOT to account for in their history on the world stage since the 1940's, but blaming them for a pandemic just because we are mad at them over trade policies is hardly a viable position.

There's evidence that maybe the "1919 Influenza Pandemic" originated in the US. Should we be demonized into the future for that disaster? Why don't we call the single biggest mass casualty event in the early 20th Century the "American Flu". Would we feel good about that?

Let's stop this whole finger pointing until more evidence becomes available. Rather than making an uncomfortable situation worse for purely political points.

 

[Kafka]

It simply does not. The economic impact was global and did not change their position on the world stage, and it served to end protests, take them out of the news, they suddenly had US government allies spreading the "it wasn't the lab" lies in their behalf. For a totalitarian regime there was nothing but win.

Now, what defies logic is President Braindead rejecting real information that placed that pandemic at the Wuhan Lab. Whether you believe it was "accidentally" released, or released in what they believed was a "controlled" fashion, it is in reality, according to the science, the most likely culprit of ground zero of this disease.

So then why does it keep showing up with evidence indicating zoonotic origin?