Do Campaign Finance Reforms Insulate Incumbents from Competition?

That means the wealthy donors must be liberals because we have a history of passing liberal legislation from Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, poverty programs, tax benefits for middle class (IRA), ADA, ACA, union organizing efforts................And, if your assumption is those with the money get their legislation passed, the liberals have been successful.

Here's another example of legislation bought and paid for by wealthy people: tax cuts.

They make no economic sense, they don't grow the economy, they lead to deficits and unemployment, and have prompted the two worst recessions of the last 80 years.

If rich people couldn't contribute to campaigns, do you think we would even have tax cuts?
 
Interest groups and lobbyists are not the same thing. A group may hire a lobbyist to push its goals, but access is the goal, not legislation.

Right, ACCESS, and how do they get ACCESS? Through donations. So someone with a lot of money has more access to their elected reps than someone who doesn't have a lot of money.

And what is the point of access if not to influence legislation?

Do you think they just buy access to chat about the weather or dogs?

What do you think they talk about on the golf course, in those private dinners, at those small, exclusive events?
 
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Lobbying and campaign contributions are not the same thing. Some lobbyist give contributions from the group(s) they represent and some do not. Groups like the AARP lobby but cannot give money.

It's the same thing that serves the same goal; influence and access.

Right now, the system reserves influence and access for the highest donors. So a regular 9-5 constituent doesn't have the same level of access to their politicians as someone who bundles money for their campaigns and PACs.

That's not my opinion, that's just reality.
 
If you were a House member and represented an agricultural district in KY and really wanted to follow the wishes of your constituents and want to be reelected, you are going to do everything you can to save the tobacco industry whether they give you any money or not.

Are you? Because districts aren't that homogenous, and we're only really getting 50% turnout in local elections at best.

And those checks were handed out to people who don't have tobacco industry in their district.

You really don't know much about this stuff, and your perspective is woefully naive and self-contradictory.
 
You fail to mention all your claims about the influence of money in elections and legislation is unverifiable and goes against years of established studies in political science, economics, and sociology.

What the fuck are you talking about?

We would not have tax cuts if rich people couldn't contribute to campaigns.

We didn't get a Public Option or single payer because of HIPPA and PHARMA.

We didn't get any prosecutions of Wall Street because of their campaign contributions.

Our entire Defense Budget is the result of access and lobbying.

Money influences legislation all the fucking time, and our current deficit is a reflection of that.
 
I tried to introduce an interesting story and specifically stated the conclusion was not based on any evidence. You have to get hostile and accuse people of lying and making stuff up. You have ruined another decent debate.

No, Flash, the problem with anecdotes is that they are filtered through inherent biases...and with you, they're often exaggerated and untruthful.

So when I decide to hold them to scrutiny, you scream about how it's not fair that I'm doing that, and that you don't have to verify your claims.

Worse, you call me dishonest while dishonestly relaying anecdotes you have no intention of ever verifying in good faith.
 
That means the wealthy donors must be liberals because we have a history of passing liberal legislation from Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, poverty programs, tax benefits for middle class (IRA), ADA, ACA, union organizing efforts................And, if your assumption is those with the money get their legislation passed, the liberals have been successful.

So back when Social Security was passed, donating to political campaigns wasn't a thing. Sure there was political contributors and donors, but they generally donated to the party, not to individual candidates. The party then dispersed its campaign funds to the candidates it wanted to back. During the 1930's, the Financial Industry was donating almost exclusively to Republicans, not Democrats. So FDR wasn't obligated to them, which is why we got the New Deal and Social Security.
 
You fail to mention all your claims about the influence of money in elections and legislation is unverifiable and goes against years of established studies in political science, economics, and sociology.

What do you think Eisenhower was warning about when he talked of the Military-Industrial Complex?
 
If money doesn't buy influence, then why do certain people max out their campaign contributions and/or bundle contributions from other rich people?
 
If money doesn't buy influence, then why do certain people max out their campaign contributions and/or bundle contributions from other rich people?

That must mean Republicans are bribed by conservative interest groups and Democrats are bribed by liberal interest groups?

Funny that they are bring bribed to vote the same way as their political leanings.

If members of Congress are bring bribed why don't all members of Congress vote the same way? Certainly the groups giving the most money are bribing all of them to vote their way, but Congress is closely divided in many of their votes.

The point is that you have no evidence to support your claim, just often repeated cliches.

Provide an example of a vote taken by Bernie Sanders that shows he was bribed by some group that gave him money.
 
Funny that they are bring bribed to vote the same way as their political leanings.

Well, this is chicken-and-egg isn't it?

Do they have these beliefs before they get the money, or do they have the beliefs because they got the money?

The very fact that question has to be asked shows you the inherent flaws in the current system.
 
So back when Social Security was passed, donating to political campaigns wasn't a thing. Sure there was political contributors and donors, but they generally donated to the party, not to individual candidates. The party then dispersed its campaign funds to the candidates it wanted to back. During the 1930's, the Financial Industry was donating almost exclusively to Republicans, not Democrats. So FDR wasn't obligated to them, which is why we got the New Deal and Social Security.

Your knowledge of the history of campaign contributions and campaign finance laws is sorely lacking.

If we take your claims as truth, we have Social Security because the Democrats in Congress and FDR were all bribed to pass it.
 
If members of Congress are bring bribed why don't all members of Congress vote the same way? Certainly the groups giving the most money are bribing all of them to vote their way, but Congress is closely divided in many of their votes.

Divided how? Along partisan lines, right?
 
The point is that you have no evidence to support your claim, just often repeated cliches.

I did support my claim...MULTIPLE TIMES. You are just unwilling to acknowledge them.

Obamacare, tax cuts, Medicare Part-D, Wall Street bailouts, our entire Defense budget...

None of those things would have been possible without campaign contributions.

What do you think Eisenhower was warning about when he spoke of the military-industrial complex?
 
Well, this is chicken-and-egg isn't it?

Do they have these beliefs before they get the money, or do they have the beliefs because they got the money?

The very fact that question has to be asked shows you the inherent flaws in the current system.

Then your claim that Democrats are somehow more moral and work in the best interests of the country and the people is a bunch of BS. Turns out they just vote that way because liberal groups are bribing them.

We obviously can't believe the claims they are making as they campaign because they will change those positions as soon as someone gives them money.

AOC and Warren were probably right-wing capitalists before they were bribed to change their votes by the liberal groups. You supported them because you knew they would be bribed once they got in office to support your views.
 
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