Dixie dumb or just trying to confuse?

Jarod

Well-known member
Contributor
If you have been following the posts, you can see that Dixie keeps confusing Chemical Weapons with WMD.

They are not always one in the same.

The CWC has said that Seirn is a CHEMICAL WEAPON, and I agree...

THe term Chemical weapon defines something for what it IS, not what it is capable of.

That does not make all Chemical Weapons WMD. The term WMD defines a weapon for what its capable of doing, namely causing massive destruction!

See the difference?
 
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I agree Jarod.

When I served in the British military we defined such weapons as NBC, Nuclear, Biological and Chemical weapons.

By definition a WMD must be capable of causing mass destruction. It is the nature of the hyperbole rhetoric people like Dixie spout that has introdued the WMD fallacy into common discussion....
 
Dixie dumb or just trying to confuse?
//

why not both ? Dumb people will try to confuse, they are just not very good at it ;)
 
Where is your supporting documentation? It seems to me, if you are going to form an argument, you need something to back it up, and you've presented nothing more than your opinion. Whenever I make some statement here, it's demanded that I present some evidence, and if I don't, it doesn't take long for someone to refute what I have said. I'm sure you don't presume we have a double standard, so please Jarhead, show us the evidence to support your position, we are anxiously awaiting.
 
Where is your supporting documentation? It seems to me, if you are going to form an argument, you need something to back it up, and you've presented nothing more than your opinion. Whenever I make some statement here, it's demanded that I present some evidence, and if I don't, it doesn't take long for someone to refute what I have said. I'm sure you don't presume we have a double standard, so please Jarhead, show us the evidence to support your position, we are anxiously awaiting.


1) You rarely if ever back your claims up. You say something like (AKA) and then make your own editorial comment. You have me trying to prove a negative... You say the CWC established Seirn as a WMD but you never posted anything that showed it to be so.

2) I am pointing out the flaw in your claim, its logic not something that requires back up.

3) http://www.cwc.gov/
 
would a thimble full of serin cause casualties if sprayed in a fine mist in a school cafeteria?

Of course it would, but so did the two boys at Columbine. Were THEY WMD's?
 
A further question would something that cuased death at a much later date also be a WMD? Ie a thimble full of plutonium dispersed in a school, and everyone dies of cancer in a few years ?
 
1) You rarely if ever back your claims up. You say something like (AKA) and then make your own editorial comment. You have me trying to prove a negative... You say the CWC established Seirn as a WMD but you never posted anything that showed it to be so.

2) I am pointing out the flaw in your claim, its logic not something that requires back up.

3) http://www.cwc.gov/

I presented the CWC and showed you specifically where it called nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, "weapons of mass destruction." I highlighted those specific words, I outlined the exact text of the Convention, and showed you specifically where the UN supported the CWC.

Your response has been, to completely ignore the facts and evidence presented, and post your "logical" opinion. Is that correct?
 
I presented the CWC and showed you specifically where it called nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, "weapons of mass destruction." I highlighted those specific words, I outlined the exact text of the Convention, and showed you specifically where the UN supported the CWC.

Your response has been, to completely ignore the facts and evidence presented, and post your "logical" opinion. Is that correct?

What you posted did not say what you say it said...

It may have said that bilogical nuclear and chemical weapons can be WMD. It clearly did not say all are!
 
ONCE AGAIN DIXIE,and you know this...


JUST BECAUSE THE CWC MENTIONS BOTH WMD AND CHEMICAL WEAPONS IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ALL CHEMICAL WEAPONS ARE WMD!
 
ONCE AGAIN DIXIE,and you know this...


JUST BECAUSE THE CWC MENTIONS BOTH WMD AND CHEMICAL WEAPONS IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ALL CHEMICAL WEAPONS ARE WMD!

That's fine, if that is your argument, present some evidence to support it. Show me something from the UN or CWC, or any body of experts, who have made this determination, and have classified which chemical weapons are WMD's and which one's aren't. I'm waiting for you to prove your claim here, and if you can't, there isn't much point in continuing the argument.
 
That's fine, if that is your argument, present some evidence to support it. Show me something from the UN or CWC, or any body of experts, who have made this determination, and have classified which chemical weapons are WMD's and which one's aren't. I'm waiting for you to prove your claim here, and if you can't, there isn't much point in continuing the argument.

Again, you are trying to make me prove a negative.

You made a claim...
You could not back it up...

so now its somehow my burden to prove its not true?
 
Again, you are trying to make me prove a negative.

You made a claim...
You could not back it up...

so now its somehow my burden to prove its not true?

No, Jarhead, you just made a claim...

ONCE AGAIN DIXIE,and you know this... JUST BECAUSE THE CWC MENTIONS BOTH WMD AND CHEMICAL WEAPONS IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ALL CHEMICAL WEAPONS ARE WMD!

So, can you back your claim or not? I've already given you my information, and you continue to refute it with nothing more than your unfounded opinion and some residual cheerleading from the pinhead gallery. I need to see some tangible proof of what you are claiming, because it contradicts the findings of the CWC and UN, concerning WMD's. They contend that Schedule 1 chemicals which have been weaponized, are WMD's. This includes Sarin bombs. If you have something to the contrary to offer, I would love for you to present it and make your case, as it stands, you have not made a case for anything, except being an idiot.

Now, for the record, I have never said that ALL chemical weapons are WMD's, just the ones listed in Schedule 1 of the Chemical Weapons Convention. Tear gas is used for riot control by the police, and is not considered a Schedule 1 chemical or WMD. The CWC doesn't simply mention WMD's and chemical weapons, it outlines what constitutes a weapon of mass destruction, and how to dispose of them. It sets the criteria by which UN inspectors, and international law have defined a weapon of mass destruction. Nothing in the CWC guidelines has anything to do with age being a factor in determining what something is. To put it rather simply, a Schedule 1 chemical, combined with a weapon, for the intent and purpose of inflicting damage in warfare, is a WMD, and is a violation of the CWC treaty, to possess, stockpile or produce.
 
THe term Chemical weapon defines something for what it IS, not what it is capable of. That does not make all Chemical Weapons WMD. The term WMD defines a weapon for what its capable of doing, namely causing massive destruction!


I agree with this rather simplistic view, however, with regard to the legality and possession of WMD's by dictators and others who are not supposed to have WMD's, and according to the UN, the CWC and GC, stipulate clear parameters around intent of original purpose of the weapon... A Sarin bomb is a WMD because it was produced to be a WMD, and any speculative analysis as to the potential destruction any given warhead could produce after a certain period of time, is irrelevant. Sarin bombs are inanimate objects, and thus, incapable of any action whatsoever, so I submit it's not wise to establish parameters based on the weapon's capability, rather the intended purpose of the producer or possessor.

This is why the UN saw fit to establish the CWC, to address the growing technological threat of chemical weapons, which the Geneva Convention failed to articulate in specific detail. The CWC classified potential chemicals into several categories, or "schedules." Some chemicals can be used for different things, other than producing WMD's, and they are classified as Schedule 2 or 3 chemicals, some chemicals used to produce WMD's are found in fertilizers or agricultural use, and are classified as Schedule 4 chemicals. AND... There are several specific chemicals, which are only used for WMD production, they have virtually no other purpose, except for use in a WMD... they are Schedule 1 chemicals. Sarin, is the first chemical listed in Schedule 1.

Another point would be, the subjective nature of the term, "Mass Destruction". I think we can agree, Care4All and Osama BinLaden, probably have differing views on what would be "mass destruction." I presented an analogy that is reasonable, concerning the chaos it would cause in America, if 10 degraded Sarin bombs exploded in schools and malls, and asked you if you thought it would be considered an attack with WMD's? So, the Sarin bombs found in Iraq, might not be capable of their original intent, it doesn't mean they are no longer WMD's.

The thing that's important to remember is, Iraq signed the CWC treaty, and was not supposed to have Sarin, or any of the precursors to make Sarin, or empty shells to fill with Sarin. These WMD's are not important because of the damage or danger they pose now, they are important because they illustrate why we couldn't allow Saddam to remain in power. These weapons did not exist, according to Saddam, he had destroyed them all... or Clinton had destroyed them with his bombing runs... whatever. They weren't supposed to be there! They WERE!
 
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