There is no county fire sevice so they have an option to pay an anual fee (a tax by any other name) to the city to have fire service.
Didnt pay for firefighting service: house burns!
- Thread starter CanadianKid
- Start date
There is no county fire sevice so they have an option to pay an anual fee (a tax by any other name) to the city to have fire service.
You fricking disingenuous whiner...you get slammed in posts and neg reps all the time
christiefan915
Catalyst
Hmm, that's what's called a "volunteer fire department". It's pretty common everywhere in the country. Presumably volunteers are in it because they believe in public service. Whatever happened to doing something because it was the right thing to do in the circumstances, and not quibbling about the $75 annual (21 cents/day) fee until the danger was over?
Even the The International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) condemned the “pay-to-play” policy of South Fulton. “The decision by the South Fulton Fire Department to allow a family’s home to burn to the ground was incredibly irresponsible,” President of the IAFF, Harold Schaitberger, said in a statement. “We condemn South Fulton’s ill-advised, unsafe policy. [Firefighters] shouldn’t be forced to check a list before running out the door to see which homeowners have paid up.”
http://tinyurl.com/29racrq
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So what happens if the 'dude' is not around and somebody else calls the fire service?
cawacko
Well-known member
I could not tell you my friend. I am no more familiar with their policy than you are. I can't imagine though there are too many places like this in the U.S. that have this type of pay for service fire stations but then I could be wrong on that.
Since Damo's a firefighter he might be able to give us a better answer.
Volunteer fire departments are financially supported by grants and grants with matching funds as well as tax dollars and corporate donations.
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I just don't understand this, as I said before it sounds incredibly medieval to me. What happens in an apartment block, do they only put out the fires in the apartments who have paid the tax?
cawacko
Well-known member
It was a mobile home that burned down so my guess is it is a mobile home park in which case there wouldn't be any multi-unit condo buildings for example.
christiefan915
Catalyst
The building owner would be responsible for the fee, not the tenants.
I doubt that there are apartment buidlings out in the middle of a rural county, but if so the owner would have to pay the fee for the multi unit building. With all of the attention I imagine the city will revisit their policy on what to do when an owner does not pay for his fire service. Remember this is a very small fire department being supported through tax revenues ffrom like 4000 residents. They have 3 full time fire fighters and 2 part time. The 75 bucks required for those living outside of the city seems very fair.
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As I just said in the neg rep I gave you. I don't have any problems whatsoever with calling you the fat gutless slob you are here. You go whine now to Damo about how unfair everybody is with you and how your widdle feewings gets hurt and you stubbed your big fat toe on they way to the fridge.
Just whine like the overgrown Baby Huey you are because we've come to expect it.
Carry on Rollo Man. Wipe the sweat from your upper lip you
Wally!
That's exactly what they do and they make sure to rescue Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny first too!
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I am glad to know they have their priorities right.
No. It is because you are ignorant and refuse to do anything to resolve that. And if your life was on the line, a firefighter like me would be the best person to call. One who puts the importance of lives over the importance of stuff, even firefighters' lives.
When you've become firefighter 1 certified and practiced and spent your life as you would spend those of firefighters' lives, then you'll have some standing in the conversation. But at this point, your defiant and proud ignorance in the face of direct information is evidence enough that you'll never get past the fact that you want so badly to disagree that any nonsense and crass stupidity is good enough to spout.
Wiining the argument, even if it aptly demonstrates his mental retardation is fine with Zap and other liberals in this thread, just as long as they perceive a win.
It doesn't matter one wit what the truth is, just that someone tried to make this about the evil Libertarian new world government they claim is looming on the horizon, and nothing else.
They don't want the truth. They want their way.
The owner of the apartment complex pays the property tax not the people who live in them. People cannot put up such a complex without a specific level of firefighter coverage in the area.
In short, the people in an apartment complex are covered. In areas that people own their apartments, such coverage is required either within taxation from a Special District, or through their HOA.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Compassion for your fellow man.
Zurt
Banned
If you don’t pay for protection, should fire companies be allowed let your house burn down? This is the sort of mundane-yet-deep question a society has to face when it chooses to be governed, rather than function as an anarchy.
Here’s the story. The city of South Fulton, Tennessee has a fire department. The county of Obion does not.
There are some people who live in Obion who do not live in South Fulton, but still want fire protection from the South Fulton FD. These people aren’t citizens of South Fulton, aren’t part of the tax base of South Fulton, and, frankly, aren’t South Fulton’s problem. And yet, they still want their homes protected.
To solve this problem, the city of South Fulton provides a for-pay service, where non-residents pay $75 a year and, in return, if there’s a fire, the South Fulton fire trucks roll.
When you have governance, you get the eventual civics questions.
For example, what if Person A lives next to Person B, but only one pays his $75? If there’s a fire and a truck rolls, what do the firefighters do? Do they fight both fires or let one burn?
This happened. A Mr. Gene Cranick of Obion County did not pay his $75 fee. Now, we don’t know anything about Mr. Cranick. We don’t know if he couldn’t afford the fee, if he forgot to pay, or was simply choosing to opt out.
In any case, time passed as time always does, and one day, Mr. Cranick’s home caught fire. Since he doesn’t pay for the South Fulton fire service, the South Fulton fire department didn’t roll. But Mr. Cranick’s neighbor did subscribe to the service, so when the neighbor called, the SFFD did respond, and protected the neighbor’s house.
According to reports, the firefighters stood there watching, as they let Mr. Cranick’s house burn to the ground.
The story gets more complex as it was revealed that even though he hadn’t paid his fire protection fee, Mr. Cranick offered essentially anything to the South Fulton Fire Department, if they would only save his home. As the story is told, Mr. Cranick was refused.
Again, we don’t know the full story. We don’t know if the refusal was because the on-the-scene firefighters were previously instructed not to help, whether they didn’t have the right paperwork and contracts to make sure Mr. Cranick would eventually pay, or even whether Mr. Cranick was actually clear in his offer and plea or whether it was interspersed with other, less pleasant words. We just don’t know.
The story itself is sad, but as a civics question, it becomes one worthy of consideration and discussion.
It’s not a simple thing.
For example, if the firefighters did save Mr. Cranick’s house, then wouldn’t they then be showing that the fee didn’t matter? Anyone would get protection, whether or not they paid.
Where would South Fulton draw the line? South Fulton covers Obion County, but then would they be expected to help in Gibson County and Dyer County as well?
What about spreading resources too thin? If trucks roll responding to citizens of other jurisdictions, what happens if there’s a fire in South Fulton and the trucks aren’t available?
What about personal responsibility? Should individual citizens always have a governmental safety net if they refuse to contribute their fair share? Should they ever be denied service and protection?
On the other hand, what about the guy who’s already out of work and just can’t afford the $75? If he loses his house, he most likely becomes a recipient of state aid or a potential criminal. In either case, he’ll cost society more.
And then, what about just simple neighborly decency?
The guy’s frickin’ house was frickin’ burning down. Quite obviously, if the fire department wasn’t there, they were under no obligation to roll. But they were standing right there. They had the resources, they had the ability, and they could have helped.
So what’s the right choice? In my opinion, I think the fire department should have done their best to save that house, and then billed Mr. Cranick a fair amount. Since they were there responding to the neighbor, they should have helped Mr. Cranick as well.
Don’t go trying to pigeonhole me as a lib or a neocon, because I’m neither. I’m a pragmatist and this is a pragmatist answer.
The simple fact is functional Americans are contributors to society. Broken Americans are drains on society and drag the rest of us down.
Mr. Cranick is now essentially homeless. We don’t know if he had insurance, but if he didn’t, he’s likely to seek some form of public assistance, possibly try to sue South Fulton, and otherwise make a burden of himself to his fellow citizens.
You’ll notice I’m not approaching this from either a moral or ethical dimension, although I’ll say this: for those firefighters to just stand there and watch a man’s home burn because he hadn’t paid $75 was just a schmuck move.
I couldn’t have done that. I’ve got a pretty hard heart and can often make some pretty cold decisions, but if I were part of that emergency response team, I don’t care whether I’d have been paid or not, I’d have had to help save that man’s home.
Not because of any religious beliefs, but just because I’m a part of a civilized society and so is he. And because I’d have wanted him to help me if I were in a similar situation.
In 1799, Patrick Henry said, “United we stand, divided we fall. Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs.”
Ya think? As a nation and as states and cities and counties and localities and citizens, it’s time we started working together. It’s time we stopped splitting into factions and make sure the union upon which our existence hangs remains strong.
In other words, people, cut this petty crap out and start working together!
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/governmen...ies-let-your-house-burn-down-it-happened/9495
Here’s the story. The city of South Fulton, Tennessee has a fire department. The county of Obion does not.
There are some people who live in Obion who do not live in South Fulton, but still want fire protection from the South Fulton FD. These people aren’t citizens of South Fulton, aren’t part of the tax base of South Fulton, and, frankly, aren’t South Fulton’s problem. And yet, they still want their homes protected.
To solve this problem, the city of South Fulton provides a for-pay service, where non-residents pay $75 a year and, in return, if there’s a fire, the South Fulton fire trucks roll.
When you have governance, you get the eventual civics questions.
For example, what if Person A lives next to Person B, but only one pays his $75? If there’s a fire and a truck rolls, what do the firefighters do? Do they fight both fires or let one burn?
This happened. A Mr. Gene Cranick of Obion County did not pay his $75 fee. Now, we don’t know anything about Mr. Cranick. We don’t know if he couldn’t afford the fee, if he forgot to pay, or was simply choosing to opt out.
In any case, time passed as time always does, and one day, Mr. Cranick’s home caught fire. Since he doesn’t pay for the South Fulton fire service, the South Fulton fire department didn’t roll. But Mr. Cranick’s neighbor did subscribe to the service, so when the neighbor called, the SFFD did respond, and protected the neighbor’s house.
According to reports, the firefighters stood there watching, as they let Mr. Cranick’s house burn to the ground.
The story gets more complex as it was revealed that even though he hadn’t paid his fire protection fee, Mr. Cranick offered essentially anything to the South Fulton Fire Department, if they would only save his home. As the story is told, Mr. Cranick was refused.
Again, we don’t know the full story. We don’t know if the refusal was because the on-the-scene firefighters were previously instructed not to help, whether they didn’t have the right paperwork and contracts to make sure Mr. Cranick would eventually pay, or even whether Mr. Cranick was actually clear in his offer and plea or whether it was interspersed with other, less pleasant words. We just don’t know.
The story itself is sad, but as a civics question, it becomes one worthy of consideration and discussion.
It’s not a simple thing.
For example, if the firefighters did save Mr. Cranick’s house, then wouldn’t they then be showing that the fee didn’t matter? Anyone would get protection, whether or not they paid.
Where would South Fulton draw the line? South Fulton covers Obion County, but then would they be expected to help in Gibson County and Dyer County as well?
What about spreading resources too thin? If trucks roll responding to citizens of other jurisdictions, what happens if there’s a fire in South Fulton and the trucks aren’t available?
What about personal responsibility? Should individual citizens always have a governmental safety net if they refuse to contribute their fair share? Should they ever be denied service and protection?
On the other hand, what about the guy who’s already out of work and just can’t afford the $75? If he loses his house, he most likely becomes a recipient of state aid or a potential criminal. In either case, he’ll cost society more.
And then, what about just simple neighborly decency?
The guy’s frickin’ house was frickin’ burning down. Quite obviously, if the fire department wasn’t there, they were under no obligation to roll. But they were standing right there. They had the resources, they had the ability, and they could have helped.
So what’s the right choice? In my opinion, I think the fire department should have done their best to save that house, and then billed Mr. Cranick a fair amount. Since they were there responding to the neighbor, they should have helped Mr. Cranick as well.
Don’t go trying to pigeonhole me as a lib or a neocon, because I’m neither. I’m a pragmatist and this is a pragmatist answer.
The simple fact is functional Americans are contributors to society. Broken Americans are drains on society and drag the rest of us down.
Mr. Cranick is now essentially homeless. We don’t know if he had insurance, but if he didn’t, he’s likely to seek some form of public assistance, possibly try to sue South Fulton, and otherwise make a burden of himself to his fellow citizens.
You’ll notice I’m not approaching this from either a moral or ethical dimension, although I’ll say this: for those firefighters to just stand there and watch a man’s home burn because he hadn’t paid $75 was just a schmuck move.
I couldn’t have done that. I’ve got a pretty hard heart and can often make some pretty cold decisions, but if I were part of that emergency response team, I don’t care whether I’d have been paid or not, I’d have had to help save that man’s home.
Not because of any religious beliefs, but just because I’m a part of a civilized society and so is he. And because I’d have wanted him to help me if I were in a similar situation.
In 1799, Patrick Henry said, “United we stand, divided we fall. Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs.”
Ya think? As a nation and as states and cities and counties and localities and citizens, it’s time we started working together. It’s time we stopped splitting into factions and make sure the union upon which our existence hangs remains strong.
In other words, people, cut this petty crap out and start working together!
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/governmen...ies-let-your-house-burn-down-it-happened/9495
Compassion for your fellow man.
If Jayrod had a cogent thought his head would implode. As it stands, he has to be careful blowing his nose.
