Despite the Ass-kissing, Stimulus Plan Passes Without a Single Republican Vote

evince said:
Its day 9, he is trying.

The Rs are showing the American people they cant be trusted to put country first.

They are about to overplay their hand and get sent to the basment.
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What hand? They lost. What don't you get about 'majority party'? It's you side, you won!
 
Darla said:
I agree with everything you said, but just want to add that Digby made a great case today that this was all for the Bluedogs who were threatening to vote against it en mass, and that would have killed the bill. So one thing that the grassroots can do is take those bastards out one by on in primaries. The ones in districts that have a 50% chance or greater of going dem even with a more progressive candidate.

And, even I was surprised that not one R broke ranks and voted for it. Boy this really shows you that the Double Authoritarian theory about R's is true. They like to boss people around in public, but what they really, really love, is taking orders.

Can't get enough of that.
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I find it incredibly naive for Obama to believe he can change the nature of politics or the nature of the Republican Party. Those idiots are listening to Rush Limbaugh, and instead of republicans marginalizing the Limbaughs and Hannity's, they've actually elevated them to leader status. Even McCain who started out well has succumbed to goosesteppin' marching orders from the top .. and Obama hasn't been in office 10 days. He bears some responsibility for this with his amazing naivete. trying to walk the tightrope of somwhere in the mushy middle only sets him up to get hit from both sides .. and the side he's chosen doesn't like him .. including blue dog democrats.

Democrats are WEAK .. don't know how to lead with authority.
 
blackascoal said:
I find it incredibly naive for Obama to believe he can change the nature of politics or the nature of the Republican Party. Those idiots are listening to Rush Limbaugh, and instead of republicans marginalizing the Limbaughs and Hannity's, they've actually elevated them to leader status. Even McCain who started out well has succumbed to goosesteppin' marching orders from the top .. and Obama hasn't been in office 10 days. He bears some responsibility for this with his amazing naivete. trying to walk the tightrope of somwhere in the mushy middle only sets him up to get hit from both sides .. and the side he's chosen doesn't like him .. including blue dog democrats.

Democrats are WEAK .. don't know how to lead with authority.
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A few of the things I've read Bac seem to indicate McCain is back to his 'maverick' side and is really trying to work with Obama. Ultimately his actions will show whether that's true or not but I'd be real surprised if McCain goes straight party line in the upcoming months.
 
blackascoal said:
House Passes Obama’s Stimulus Package

WASHINGTON — The House voted, 244-188, on Wednesday evening for President Obama’s package of federal tax cuts and spending worth $819 billion and meant to jump-start the economy out of its worst crisis in decades.

Although the president’s legislative victory was no surprise, given the Democrats’ 255-to-178 advantage in the House, the lack of any Republican support was a disappointment for Mr. Obama. The vote came hours after Mr. Obama declared that “we don’t have a moment to spare” just after conferring with business leaders at the White House.

Before voting on President Obama’s plan, the House rejected a stimulus measure offered by Republican members that focused more on tax cuts. The vote against that measure was 266 to 170, almost entirely on party lines.

The Senate, where the Democrats’ advantage was also increased by the November elections, is expected to debate economic stimulus measures next week. Considerable public debate and private negotiations could lie ahead, given differences between the White House and Congress, and Democrats and Republicans.

-- more at link
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/us/politics/29obama.html?_r=1&hp

Just as I expected, Obama has over-estimated his God-like powers of persuasion. Like the political neophyte that he is, he doesn't seem to understand the basic nature of American politics.

Rest assured that republicans will be doing everything in their power to make sure the economy does not recover with this package .. because if it does, it will eternally seal their doom.

Obama should have spent more time rewarding those who've supported him and shoring up his own base instead of giving the finger to the left and slobbering all over right-wing ass.
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I think you are assuming to much in saying that Obama actually thought he would get Republican support for the bill. Perhaps the perception of trying to get Republican support for the bill is all he really wanted.


The Republicans all voted against this bill but what was their alternative? Seriously? What was the alternative that they would have voted for? It's one thing to oppose what Obama and the Democrats are doing while proposing a legitimate alternative but yet another to just vote no on a bill that the American people generally support.
 
cawacko said:
A few of the things I've read Bac seem to indicate McCain is back to his 'maverick' side and is really trying to work with Obama. Ultimately his actions will show whether that's true or not but I'd be real surprised if McCain goes straight party line in the upcoming months.
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I don't expect McCain will go straight party line, but he should have shown more leadership with his party .. if that leadership is within him .. I don't think it is.

McCain will be marginalized by the hard right.
 
blackascoal said:
I find it incredibly naive for Obama to believe he can change the nature of politics or the nature of the Republican Party. Those idiots are listening to Rush Limbaugh, and instead of republicans marginalizing the Limbaughs and Hannity's, they've actually elevated them to leader status. Even McCain who started out well has succumbed to goosesteppin' marching orders from the top .. and Obama hasn't been in office 10 days. He bears some responsibility for this with his amazing naivete. trying to walk the tightrope of somwhere in the mushy middle only sets him up to get hit from both sides .. and the side he's chosen doesn't like him .. including blue dog democrats.

Democrats are WEAK .. don't know how to lead with authority.
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I think it's incredibly naive to take Obama at face value. The appearance of bipartisanship is all that is needed and as between Obama, who is polling at 68% and John Boehner, Mike Pence and Eric Cantor who poll in the 20s and are taking marching order from Limbaugh, who do you think looks like the reasonable one?
 
Dungheap said:
I think it's incredibly naive to take Obama at face value. The appearance of bipartisanship is all that is needed and as between Obama, who is polling at 68% and John Boehner, Mike Pence and Eric Cantor who poll in the 20s and are taking marching order from Limbaugh, who do you think looks like the reasonable one?
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At least your honest about what he's doing. This 'change politics' 'post partisan' stuff is purely b.s. He's a partisan hack like all the others he's just very good at hiding it and playing the game well hence his strong electoral win and this seeming devotion to him that he really is going to be different than all the other Presidents we've had.

Obama is playing the game and deserves credit for it.
 
Dungheap said:
I think you are assuming to much in saying that Obama actually thought he would get Republican support for the bill. Perhaps the perception of trying to get Republican support for the bill is all he really wanted.
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I think you nailed this, Obama is shrewd or a weasel depending on how much you admire how good a politician is at politicking.

Dungheap said:
The Republicans all voted against this bill but what was their alternative? Seriously? What was the alternative that they would have voted for? It's one thing to oppose what Obama and the Democrats are doing while proposing a legitimate alternative but yet another to just vote no on a bill that the American people generally support.
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BS they do. Most were against the auto bailout in polls. Many are against corporate welfare in general. What is so wrong about proposing to do nothing for once? Part of the reason we are in this mess is that government never controlled spending in the last 8 years.
The Dems have promised nothing for the near $1 trillion they want to spend, there will be a recession anyway, we already see it and how long can we maintain any turnaround based on propping up consumer spending for consumers who are deep in personal debt and propping up shitty mortgages and thus killing off incentive for people to be more responsible with their mortgages in the future?

Hell I remember you Dung (rightfully) making fun of Bush for his madeup $750 billion stimulus plan, but you are willing to accept a $1 trillion Dem plan?

This will do little but provide temporary relief from the inevitable downturn.
No one wants a recession, but it's better to take it and get it over with, than delay it and boost debt by massive amounts, especially when capital is already tight and we are ALREADY seeing signs of less demand for American debt.
 
cawacko said:
At least your honest about what he's doing. This 'change politics' 'post partisan' stuff is purely b.s. He's a partisan hack like all the others he's just very good at hiding it and playing the game well hence his strong electoral win and this seeming devotion to him that he really is going to be different than all the other Presidents we've had.

Obama is playing the game and deserves credit for it.
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I guess it depends on your perspective. Of course, the Republicans could have come up with some actual ideas for the stimulus bill other than their snake oil cure all: tax cuts. Had they done that there would be a legitimate criticism of Obama for not following through on the rhetoric. Instead, you have Boehner instructing his party to vote against the bill before he even met with Obama.
 
Dungheap said:
I think you are assuming to much in saying that Obama actually thought he would get Republican support for the bill. Perhaps the perception of trying to get Republican support for the bill is all he really wanted.
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I doubt that very seriously. First, he put a lot of capital into trying to appease republicans .. thus, not getting their support can be viewed as a failure, a perception that Obama does not want coming out of the gate. It's apparent that Obama genuinely believes he can change the nature of politics. A noble goal, but unrealistic.

The Republicans all voted against this bill but what was their alternative? Seriously? What was the alternative that they would have voted for? It's one thing to oppose what Obama and the Democrats are doing while proposing a legitimate alternative but yet another to just vote no on a bill that the American people generally support.
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They have an alternative and say that it uses the same metrics Obama is using but costs less .. and will produce twice as many jobs. Of course you'd have to be lobotomized to believe that bullshit .. but their more obvious and sane alternative would have been to support the plan Obama has put forth .. which is as you say, supported by most Americans.

The fact that NO republican supported this bill demonstrates that republicans are taking orders from someone. There is no fucking way in hell at leasta few of them wouldn't have supported this if that were not true.

This is war .. and democrats are not warriors.
 
Dungheap said:
I think it's incredibly naive to take Obama at face value. The appearance of bipartisanship is all that is needed and as between Obama, who is polling at 68% and John Boehner, Mike Pence and Eric Cantor who poll in the 20s and are taking marching order from Limbaugh, who do you think looks like the reasonable one?
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Amazing.

No matter what he does there's an excuse or twist of plot from his loyals.

Now it's just the "appearance" of bi-partisanship, when before let's all applaud his bi-partisanship.

Let me get this straight .. you voted for him .. and you defend him by saying "it's incredibly naive to take Obama at face value."

We should not take the POTUS states at face value .. we should assume we know what he's doing.

I'm sorry brother, that makes no sense to me.
 
blackascoal said:
Amazing.

No matter what he does there's an excuse or twist of plot from his loyals.

Now it's just the "appearance" of bi-partisanship, when before let's all applaud his bi-partisanship.

Let me get this straight .. you voted for him .. and you defend him by saying "it's incredibly naive to take Obama at face value."

We should not take the POTUS states at face value .. we should assume we know what he's doing.

I'm sorry brother, that makes no sense to me.
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It's always been the appearance of bi-partisanship. That's always been the game. I think it is incredibly naive to think that the Republicans' refusal to vote for legislation that Obama and the Democrats intentionally crafted to gain bi-partisan support will somehow be a failure for Obama as opposed to evidence of the bankruptcy of the Republican party. That's what I see as naive.

I recognize that I am in the minority on this one so we shall see.

Nevertheless, anyone want to wager on how many Republicans end up voting for the real bill?
 
Dungheap said:
It's always been the appearance of bi-partisanship. That's always been the game. I think it is incredibly naive to think that the Republicans' refusal to vote for legislation that Obama and the Democrats intentionally crafted to gain bi-partisan support will somehow be a failure for Obama as opposed to evidence of the bankruptcy of the Republican party. That's what I see as naive.

I recognize that I am in the minority on this one so we shall see.

Nevertheless, anyone want to wager on how many Republicans end up voting for the real bill?
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Who needed more evidence that the Republican Party is bankrupt?

NOBODY needed it .. which is why Obama is the president. He didn't get elected to play "games" as yoiu call it .. particularly when the country is teetering on disaster. He was elected to lead and he was given the Congress that would ensure he could lead.

It's naive to believe this is some elaborate game to expose republicans. They've had 8 fucking years of exposure and the American people already get it.

And, yes there will be many republicans who will support the final bill out of the necessity of appearance, but that will not come without a price.
 
Obama is President of America. He's not President of the Democrats.

It's unfathomable to me that someone thinks he should play the Presidency like a majority whip. What a strange read on the past few days.
 
bac

they won the election, so it is their turn to be dictator...like bushco, well maybe better than them, but lets keep a close eye on things

bi-partisan...sure, like unity and hope

what was that old line, the republic will last until the legislators discover that they can bribe the taxpayers with their own money :eek:

oat, is inflation better than unemployment - unemployment can bring utter despair to some - like the man that killed his wife, five children and himself, but it destroys savings
 
Its silly how being in the minority will make you consider voting along your professed lines of political philosophy, instead of like the drunken sailors my party has been for 8 years...
 
Dungheap said:
I think you are assuming to much in saying that Obama actually thought he would get Republican support for the bill. Perhaps the perception of trying to get Republican support for the bill is all he really wanted.


The Republicans all voted against this bill but what was their alternative? Seriously? What was the alternative that they would have voted for? It's one thing to oppose what Obama and the Democrats are doing while proposing a legitimate alternative but yet another to just vote no on a bill that the American people generally support.
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So you feel he may have played the Republicans? But I just wonder, if he knew he wasn't going to get Republican support, why all of the tax cuts? We just had 8 years of tax cuts, at the end of which we are in financial diaster. Republicans say - We need more tax cuts! They get them, and vote against it anyway. Maybe the bill was not crafted to attract Republicans, but rather, Republican opposiition was used to keep the left quiet. In which case; who is Obama playing?

And if he knew he was going to get no R support, to cater to the lowest common denominator of that corrupt base by stripping the bill of family planning dollars...that was craven.
 
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