Dems Alarmed as Independents Bolt

NigelTufnel said:
Passing healthcare reform is how the Democrats win. Do what you said you were going to do.
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Yeah if it was reform, but spending a record amount on insuring the rest of the public that doesn't fall under Medicare/Medicaid is not reform, it is government taking over, it is Socialism, it also means spending yet far further out of control.

Are you fucking listening to what independents are saying? They are saying they have a big problem with your big spending, and your solution to win them back is to spend far more? Did somebody spike your koolaid?
 
It's not like refusing to pass healthcare reform means less spending. It just means the average person pays much more in healthcare bills instead of a little more in taxes.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Yeah if it was reform, but spending a record amount on insuring the rest of the public that doesn't fall under Medicare/Medicaid is not reform, it is government taking over, it is Socialism, it also means spending yet far further out of control.

Are you fucking listening to what independents are saying? They are saying they have a big problem with your big spending, and your solution to win them back is to spend far more? Did somebody spike your koolaid?
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The House Bill reduces the deficit. And it isn't government taking over anything. Basically, you're full of shit on all counts.


Edit: And I'd note that there is no such monolithic voting bloc known as "independents." There are all sorts of different groups with different political leanings that are slapped with the label "independent." Pretending to know what "independents" think, let alone why they supposedly think it, is a fool's game. I'm not surprised you're taken in by it.
 
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NigelTufnel said:
The House Bill reduces the deficit. And it isn't government taking over anything. Basically, you're full of shit on all counts.


Edit: And I'd note that there is no such monolithic voting bloc known as "independents." There are all sorts of different groups with different political leanings that are slapped with the label "independent." Pretending to know what "independents" think, let alone why they supposedly think it, is a fool's game. I'm not surprised you're taken in by it.
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Thinking never was your strong suit, was it?
 
NigelTufnel said:
The House Bill reduces the deficit. And it isn't government taking over anything. Basically, you're full of shit on all counts.
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Offering a public option means government will be de facto taking over health insurance, who the fuck is going to pay for health insurance when they can get it cheaper and subsidized by taxes with government offering it?
Are you insance, the house bill does not reduce the deficit, even Pelosi herself said it will cost $849 billion (and of course like all government estimates that WILL be grossly underestimating the TRUE cost)
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28884.html

Wow what a shock, who would have expected a spending bill to increase the deficit, I mean I thought when you spend more deficits go down.

NigelTufnel said:
Edit: And I'd note that there is no such monolithic voting bloc known as "independents." There are all sorts of different groups with different political leanings that are slapped with the label "independent." Pretending to know what "independents" think, let alone why they supposedly think it, is a fool's game. I'm not surprised you're taken in by it.
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Really, so why are the Democrats concerned too?
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=04CE7386-18FE-70B2-A811C3534B8E32BE
I'm not pretending to know what they think, they are saying in poll after poll, that they think the Dems are spending way too much and racking up way too much debt:
"a flurry of new polls makes clear that Democrats are facing deeper problems with independents—the swing voters who swung dramatically toward the party in 2006 and 2008 but who now are registering deep unease with the amount of spending and debt called for under Obama's agenda in an era of one-party rule in Washington"

Once again, you just don't know what you are talking about.
 
Watermark said:
It's not like refusing to pass healthcare reform means less spending. It just means the average person pays much more in healthcare bills instead of a little more in taxes.
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Wrong, even people who support this awful so called "reform" like MottleyDuped fully recognize that it does NOTHING to control cost.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Offering a public option means government will be de facto taking over health insurance, who the fuck is going to pay for health insurance when they can get it cheaper and subsidized by taxes with government offering it?
Are you insance, the house bill does not reduce the deficit, even Pelosi herself said it will cost $849 billion (and of course like all government estimates that WILL be grossly underestimating the TRUE cost)
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28884.html

Wow what a shock, who would have expected a spending bill to increase the deficit, I mean I thought when you spend more deficits go down.
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The public option is funded through premiums and is not subsidized by taxes. And yes, the House bill does indeed reduce the deficit. Check the CBO report


KingCondanomation said:
Really, so why are the Democrats concerned too?
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=04CE7386-18FE-70B2-A811C3534B8E32BE
I'm not pretending to know what they think, they are saying in poll after poll, that they think the Dems are spending way too much and racking up way too much debt:
"a flurry of new polls makes clear that Democrats are facing deeper problems with independents—the swing voters who swung dramatically toward the party in 2006 and 2008 but who now are registering deep unease with the amount of spending and debt called for under Obama's agenda in an era of one-party rule in Washington"

Once again, you just don't know what you are talking about.
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Show me the polls. And again, this doesn't address my main point that "independents" aren't a homogenous bloc of voters but rather are various groups of voters with different and divergent political views and that treating them as a homogenous group is stupid.
 
NigelTufnel said:
The public option is funded through premiums and is not subsidized by taxes. And yes, the House bill does indeed reduce the deficit. Check the CBO report
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Bzzz wrong.
From the very first paragraph of the link I gave you:
"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi unveiled a $894 billion health care bill Thursday that would extend coverage to 36 million Americans through a mix of subsidies, tax incentives and penalties on individuals and small businesses"

NigelTufnel said:
Show me the polls. And again, this doesn't address my main point that "independents" aren't a homogenous bloc of voters but rather are various groups of voters with different and divergent political views and that treating them as a homogenous group is stupid.
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The polls are in the link of the start of this thread. I never said they were homogenous, but the primary reason they gave was spending.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Bzzz wrong.
From the very first paragraph of the link I gave you:
"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi unveiled a $894 billion health care bill Thursday that would extend coverage to 36 million Americans through a mix of subsidies, tax incentives and penalties on individuals and small businesses
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Subsidies for poor people that apply to any plan they may choose, private or public.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Bzzz wrong.
From the very first paragraph of the link I gave you:
"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi unveiled a $894 billion health care bill Thursday that would extend coverage to 36 million Americans through a mix of subsidies, tax incentives and penalties on individuals and small businesses"
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You don't have the foggiest idea what you are talking about. The public option is supported through premiums.

KingCondanomation said:
The polls are in the link of the start of this thread. I never said they were homogenous, but the primary reason they gave was spending.
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No, the polls aren't in the link. There is a reference to polls showing spending as a Democrats weakness among independents but there is no actual evidence in the body of the story to substantiate the claim. The closest we get is some comment about exit polls in the Virginia House of Delegates race.
 
Onceler said:
Dems are going to take a bath in the next election, no matter what happens in the next year, so they might as well ram as much through as they can now, and damn the torpedos, as they say...
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wow, sounds like we have dictators running our country..
hows that hope and change for ya now..
 
NigelTufnel said:
You don't have the foggiest idea what you are talking about. The public option is supported through premiums.
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Well Pelosi herself says they are covered partially by subsidies, I mean holy shit, you can read, are you calling her a liar? If not then stop wasting my time with stubborn bullshit.

NigelTufnel said:
No, the polls aren't in the link. There is a reference to polls showing spending as a Democrats weakness among independents but there is no actual evidence in the body of the story to substantiate the claim. The closest we get is some comment about exit polls in the Virginia House of Delegates race.
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The polls do show that independents see Dems as high spending and they are ditching the Dems bigtime. Put the 2 together and that is why you have independent pollsters stating a very VERY obvious conclusion.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Well Pelosi herself says they are covered partially by subsidies, I mean holy shit, you can read, are you calling her a liar? If not then stop wasting my time with stubborn bullshit.
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As Watermark pointed out, the subsidies are not exclusively for the public option premiums but for whatever insurance the person receiving the subsidy wishes to purchase. The public option gains no competitive advantage whatsoever by virtue of the subsidies.


KingCondanomation said:
The polls do show that independents see Dems as high spending and they are ditching the Dems bigtime. Put the 2 together and that is why you have independent pollsters stating a very VERY obvious conclusion.
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You're just making shit up on this score as well. I understand that the Politco told you so, but just because something appears in the Politico doesn't make it so. Where is the poll showing that independents (again, not a monolithic group. And, I would add, with Republican party ID at 20%, comprised of many Republican defectors) see Dems as high spending?
 
The democrat strategy according to respected posters in this thread:

"Ram as much shit through as quickly as possible before the american public figures out what's going on"
 
Overlord said:
The democrat strategy according to respected posters in this thread:

"Ram as much shit through as quickly as possible before the american public figures out what's going on"
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Correction: ram as much shit as possible to make folks beholden to us or paid off before the next election. In close races we can always use ACORN again.
 
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