Democrats = failed ideas, still running against bush

[apple0154]

No, not 8 yrs. Reagan began the war on the middle class, it was continued by BushI and Clinton (a conservative) signed Nafta/Gatt to seal our doom. Our problems have been building for 30 yrs, not just 8.

You can't blame one man, its conservative ideology that has failed and has intentionally caused hunger in this country.

I don't see implementing those agreements as the problem itself. Something had to be done to start bringing the world together. We couldn't keep going with the way things were; two people capable of doing the same job while one earned $50,000/yr and the other $5,000/yr. depending in which country they lived.

The problem was rather than spreading the benefits out over the general population, to those who lost their jobs, the profits went to a few select individuals/groups.

I'll use some random numbers for demonstration purposes. Let's say a pair of shoes cost $50 to produce and sells for $100. That's $50 profit. A company closes it's plant here and produces shoes overseas for $5 a pair and sells them here for $75. That's a $70 profit. Part of that additional $20 profit, from $50 to $70 on the sale of each pair of shoes, should be used to retrain the people who lost their job. The company would still make more money, the general population would pay less and the unemployed workers would have a fund to draw on, plus the people in impoverished nations would slowly enter the marketplace.

However, such a policy would be branded Socialist while the Conservative policy is "grab all you can".

The world has to change but not at the suffering of some due to the greed of others. That is the result of Conservative ideology and that's what has to change.

 

[Damocles]

You're hilarious. Conservative Republicans loved Bush (72% approval rating in December 2008) and hate Obama (8% approval rating currently). This pretense that there was all this disgust with Bush is crap. And, not coincidentally, conservative Republicans make up the overwhelming majority of Tea Party supporters:



http://www.gallup.com/poll/141098/tea-party-supporters-overlap-republican-base.aspx

I didn't say all of them I said many, all that was necessary apparently. And there is a difference between party hack and conservative.

The first thing you should note is that not all of them were happy as heck with Bush. Even among that stalwart group.

 

[Onceler]

Dixie doesn't LOVE BUSH! Dixie wrote a sarcastic thread in the height of all the "Bush Hate" from the left, where virtually every thread on the board began with "I Hate Bush!" Since that time, clueless morons like Jarhead, have mistakenly presumed I seriously have personal affections toward George W. Bush. Often exemplified with a misquote taken from that thread, "I love the way Bush looks in jeans" ...which I never actually said. I did indicate I loved how he was comfortable enough to do an interview in jeans.

While I believe Bush made a better president than Al Gore or John Kerry ever would have, I am far from a Bush fan. I didn't like Bush Sr. when he was running against Reagan, and I never trusted him as president. Pinheads should give credit where credit is due, Bush Sr. coined the phrase "voodoo economics" and was the FIRST politician to attack Regan's economic ideas. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, G.W. gave us "compassionate conservatism" which is really a code word for "fiscal liberal!"

One huge problem we always seem to have with strong social conservatives, they tend to be fiscally liberal as well. I think a balance is needed, that's what Reagan had. He was a social conservative, but fiscally conservative too.

You're not fooling anyone, Rebel. That thread wasn't sarcastic. You were as big a Bush apologist as these boards have known.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

How can you possibly claim that Reagan was fiscally conservative while Bush wasn't?

Well, Bush did cut discretionary spending from 16.7% under Clinton to below 2%, so a case might be made that he was fiscally conservative there. However, with the NCLB and Pill Bills, as well as his other 'compassionate conservatism' grew and expanded government and the deficit. Reagan believed in smaller government, he would have never signed on to the Pill Bill or NCLB, and he damn sure wouldn't have put Ted Kennedy in charge of education reform.

Now, sometimes I forget that most of you mush-brains were still shittin yellow in your diapers when Reagan was president, and all you have to go by is what you are fed from the liberal media, and you always want to point out the deficit spending under Reagan... but remember, Reagan had a Democrat-controlled Congress through BOTH terms. He was never really able to implement the ideas he wanted to, because Tip O'Neil wouldn't allow it! One thing Reagan pushed for, and I think was maybe the first president to push for it, was a "line-item veto." This would have given him the ability to line-out the 'pork' in a bill, and sign it into law.

 

[Bonestorm]

I didn't say all of them. And there is a difference between party hack and conservative.

Whatever, guy. Your claims that conservatives didn't like Bush and Bush's policies were the genesis of the Tea Party are total horseshit. You can say it all you want but you've got nothing to back it up.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Whatever happened to the party of responsibility. Wasn't that one of your conservative talking points a couple of yrs ago. Now it's time for conservatives to take a look at what they have done to this country and take responsibility.
Who got us into wars, economic servitude to the chinese and has driven us into 3rd world status? It wasn't liberal/progressive ideology.

The party of responsibility left the building when Ike left office. Even the better of the Presidents since Ike (speaking of Reagan and Clinton) failed to live up to the fiscal responsibility. Reagan allowed spending to continue to grow via compromise with Tip's House and the Reps desire to greatly advance the military machine.

Clinton attempted to be fiscally responsible in his second term, but made a fatal mistake in repealing Glass Steagall (which was overwhelmingly supported by both parties).

As for who got us into wars.... ask Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and lil Bush. Again... BOTH parties.

As for economic servitude... first, that is ridiculous. Second, again... it is the spending of BOTH parties that has driven up the debt to the level it is at today.

Too many on the left and right try to blame 'the other party'. Fifty years since the last fiscal year in which the US actually LOWERED its debt year over year.

I know Bush is a very popular whipping post for the left... but take a good hard look at what happened. What did the Dems do to stop his spending? Who controlled BOTH houses of Congress during the WORST of his spending?

Who stood beside him and championed the 'more home owners than ever before'?

 

[Damocles]

Whatever, guy. Your claims that conservatives didn't like Bush and Bush's policies were the genesis of the Tea Party are total horseshit. You can say it all you want but you've got nothing to back it up.

Again, I said "enough" and "many" not "every"... That you want to attempt to pretend that for 9 years I wasn't telling people that the man was no conservative and that I was unhappy with him because of it is your "thang"...

Again, it doesn't take "all" of them, just enough to turn an election. It doesn't even take that many to do it.

Your attempt to "discredit" what happened notwithstanding, many fiscal conservatives lost trust with the R party and because of that they either didn't rush out to vote, or they voted third party. Enough of them did this to change the Congress and the Senate massively.

Did the R party listen? That they aren't arguing gay marriage ad infinitum is a good sign that they at least still know how to talk to those people.

 

[Liberty]

These people win there party nominations... I feel sure there were better more liberal choices than Karry or Gore, but Bush is a CONSERVATIVE, hell he is the CONSERVATIVES conservative! He is a hero to the far right, just ask Dixie!

You're crazy dude.

Bush is a neocon.

Then Dixie is a neocon.

How could anyone support any of the names you listed above, is beyond me.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Bush was what I call a conservative, what I hate about the conservative movement. You can call it being socialist or facist or what ever you want, but he was supported almost 100% by the Conservative party for 8 years. Not one veto.

He is a mirror of the Palin wing of the Republican party.... The more conservative branch!

You are confusing the words conservative and Republican. There was nothing conservative about Bush with regards to fiscal policy. There was nothing conservative about the Rep led Congress with regards to fiscal policy. They, along with the Dem led Congresses were fiscally irresponsible... aka... liberal.

 

[Bonestorm]

Again, I said "enough" and "many" not "every"... That you want to attempt to pretend that for 9 years I wasn't telling people that the man was no conservative and that I was unhappy with him because of it is your "thang"...

Again, it doesn't take "all" of them, just enough to turn an election. It doesn't even take that many to do it.

I don't give a fuck about your personal opinion of Bush. I'm just calling out your bullshit about conservatives, the Tea Party and Bush.

 

[Onceler]

Again, I said "enough" and "many" not "every"... That you want to attempt to pretend that for 9 years I wasn't telling people that the man was no conservative and that I was unhappy with him because of it is your "thang"...

Again, it doesn't take "all" of them, just enough to turn an election. It doesn't even take that many to do it.

Your attempt to "discredit" what happened notwithstanding, many fiscal conservatives lost trust with the R party and because of that they either didn't rush out to vote, or they voted third party. Enough of them did this to change the Congress and the Senate massively.

Again, the #'s do not back you up. The GOP lost independents the last 2 elections; that's why they lost. They didn't lose conservatives.

There is the way things are, and the way you would like them to be. You would like the TEA folks to be a non-partisan group that believes in a set of principles, and oppose whoever doesn't support those principles. That's true of some of them, but - contrary to your revisionist view - they were quiet for 8 years of Bush spending through the roof, and just happened to come out of the woodwork when an alleged Muslim socialist liberal became President.

 

[Damocles]

I don't give a fuck about your personal opinion of Bush. I'm just calling out your bullshit about conservatives, the Tea Party and Bush.

And you are wrongly confusing Republican with Conservative while attempting to ignore what I say to fill it in with what you want to hear. Amazingly, even in the poll you posted, among the most stalwart republicans there was a measure of those Republican "conservatives" that were unhappy with Bush.

Your poll supports my reasoning very strongly.

 

[Liberty]

ANd you are a libertarian, you voted against the VAST majority of the Conservative party!

It would be hard to call you a conservative.

I'm fiscally conservative and socially tolerant.

Something the republicans are not. At all.

 

[Damocles]

Again, the #'s do not back you up. The GOP lost independents the last 2 elections; that's why they lost. They didn't lose conservatives.

There is the way things are, and the way you would like them to be. You would like the TEA folks to be a non-partisan group that believes in a set of principles, and oppose whoever doesn't support those principles. That's true of some of them, but - contrary to your revisionist view - they were quiet for 8 years of Bush spending through the roof, and just happened to come out of the woodwork when an alleged Muslim socialist liberal became President.

Again you confuse "conservative" with "republican"... The Conservatives that I talk about ARE those Independents. The same independents that will put a ton of Republicans into Congress this year for the reason that I stated they would.

 

[Jarod]

I'm fiscally conservative and socially tolerant.

Something the republicans are not. At all.

Some are....

Im fiscally moderate and socially ultra liberal.

 

[Onceler]

Again you confuse "conservative" with "republican"... The Conservatives that I talk about ARE those Independents. The same independents that will put a ton of Republicans into Congress this year.

The independents you are talking about aren't as black & white ideologically as you seem to want to believe. You're really tapdancing here to try to make the facts come around to whatever point you're trying to make.

 

[Damocles]

The independents you are talking about aren't as black & white ideologically as you seem to want to believe. You're really tapdancing here to try to make the facts come around to whatever point you're trying to make.

When did I say they were "black and white"? You've attempted to fit what you want me to say into your argument, but it isn't there man.

I've given a general label to the fiscal conservative "I" voter who changed their votes and a reason why many of them did. I also pointed out why those same people will change their votes again this time.

 

[Bonestorm]

Again you confuse "conservative" with "republican"... The Conservatives that I talk about ARE those Independents. The same independents that will put a ton of Republicans into Congress this year for the reason that I stated they would.

I'm not the one that is confused. Only 6% of Tea Party folks are self-identified "independents" whereas 62% are self-identified "conservative Republicans."

 

[Liberty]

Is McCain a conservative?

Palin?

What about Rommney?

McCain is a prick. And a progressive Marxist.

Palin---- is a McCain supporter.

Rommney---- is a police state junky.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You're not fooling anyone, Rebel. That thread wasn't sarcastic. You were as big a Bush apologist as these boards have known.

Not trying to fool anyone, especially not a fool like you... I don't have to try! Just clarifying the record for those who weren't fortunate enough to be around back then. The board was literally filled with one thread after another, railing on Bush for everything from the war, to allowing reptilians living in the ocean to assume power in government! Literally EVERY thread started by a pinhead, began with "I hate Bush....." followed by outrageous overblown over-hyped rhetoric you heard from MoveOn.org! In an effort to get under your skin, I posted a SARCASTIC thread entitled 'I LOVE BUSH!' In that thread, I chronicled all of the things I personally liked about the guy, to which you all really had no argumentative points to raise, so you turned the thread into "Dixies Ode To Bush" and began teasing me about my "man crush" on Bush in blue jeans.

If you are so shallow and foolish to believe that I literally have a thing for 70 year old men in blue jeans, then so be it! I can't do anything about your mental incompetency, I just think it's a shame we have to allow you to vote.