Democrats against education...

Bonestorm said:
How are you defining "success" here? And who cares about whether people want more of them if what they get from them is no better -- and sometimes worse -- than what they get from traditional public schools?
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So... who are you getting your info from that says charter schools are 'no better and sometimes worse' than public? link us up.

If they are the 'same' then why should you get to deny the parents the right to CHOOSE which they send their kids to school to?
 
cawacko said:
Rawstory? Really? You couldn't have just given me an article from the Dispatch?

The Economist article was on New York City and Bill De Basio. It was also about Chicago. It wasn't arguing for the Columbus market.
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His article also focuses on the failures alone. There were 75 charter schools in Columbus alone, 400 in Ohio... of the 75 in Columbus 17 failed. 58 did not.

Mutts article is heavily biased... which is why it sensationalizes the 'unprecedented' number of closings. Keep in mind that the number of charter schools that exist also is unprecedented. But yeah, they leave that part out.
 
Superfreak said:
His article also focuses on the failures alone. There were 75 charter schools in Columbus alone, 400 in Ohio... of the 75 in Columbus 17 failed. 58 did not.

Mutts article is heavily biased... which is why it sensationalizes the 'unprecedented' number of closings. Keep in mind that the number of charter schools that exist also is unprecedented. But yeah, they leave that part out.
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Ok, I missed the total number of Columbus charter schools. It does give the number of failures a different context.
 
cawacko said:
Does it have to be done on a large scale? Suburbs with good public schools aren't demanding charter schools. Charter schools didn't come about with the plan to replace all public schools. There was a specific demand in our country's cities for an alternative. So why is it all or nothing to you?
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Why you so hung up on convincing me on charter schools!
 
The Dude said:
Why you so hung up on convincing me on charter schools!
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It's not just about charter schools. The issue is how do we best educate our youth but specifically in this case lower income minority students who struggle the most. You can tell me I'm unemployed and can't hold a job and that you don't like simpleton plans but that doesn't really address any issue of education. It's why I asked if you don't like the charter schools that are being used in cities like New York, Chicago and New Orleans what would you like to see? I'm not suggesting charter schools are the only answer.
 
cawacko said:
It's not just about charter schools. The issue is how do we best educate our youth but specifically in this case lower income minority students who struggle the most. You can tell me I'm unemployed and can't hold a job and that you don't like simpleton plans but that doesn't really address any issue of education. It's why I asked if you don't like the charter schools that are being used in cities like New York, Chicago and New Orleans what would you like to see? I'm not suggesting charter schools are the only answer.
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Want to improve education? Privatize it. End the government monopoly. The government runs education like it runs Amtrak.

It is amazing to me how people constantly complain that government doesn't do anything right yet so willingly turn the most important aspects of their lives over to government.

I guess being willfully naive is not a partisan trait
 
cawacko said:
To me it bears repeating, money was diverted from public schools to charter schools because (lower income minority student dominated) public schools were not educating our children at an acceptable level. People became fed up and demanded a change, an alternative.
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And for the most part, that alternative doesn't improve anything and in some cases makes things worse.
 
Bonestorm said:
http://credo.stanford.edu/documents/NCSS 2013 Final Draft.pdf

Page 86 has the relevant summary table.
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first... thanks for posting the actual page number that was relevant.

second... that page shows what we have said... some charter schools outperform, some the same, some worse. close the ones that are worse. Obviously you model after the ones that are better. find out what they are doing and improve not only other charters, but public schools as well.


Becuase charter schools divert money from public schools.
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So? the money should go to the schools the parents feel give their kids the best chance. period.
 
Superfreak said:
first... thanks for posting the actual page number that was relevant.

second... that page shows what we have said... some charter schools outperform, some the same, some worse. close the ones that are worse. Obviously you model after the ones that are better. find out what they are doing and improve not only other charters, but public schools as well.
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As I said, reasonable minds can disagree on what should happen with charter schools in light of the findings.


Superfreak said:
So? the money should go to the schools the parents feel give their kids the best chance. period.
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I really don't care what parents "feel" about charter schools. If they aren't working, they shouldn't receive scarce resources to make little Johnny's mom and dad feel better.
 
Bonestorm said:
And for the most part, that alternative doesn't improve anything and in some cases makes things worse.
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so you ignore the data that you presented? In some cases it makes it worse, some the same, in some cases BETTER. why do you keep leaving that third one out?
 
The Dude said:
Reich winger rage on education is as funny as the gay marriage rage.
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You just go from calling me unemployed and can't a job to being rich? I wish that was the case. Should I (others) just sit back and say since this problem doesn't affect me I shouldn't care about it and who really cares if these poor minority kids are stuck in failing schools?
 
Bonestorm said:
As I said, reasonable minds can disagree on what should happen with charter schools in light of the findings.
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Yet you deliberately keep ignoring the findings. You just cherry pick the part that some underperform. As stated... shut those down.

But focus on the ones that OUTPERFORM.

I really don't care what parents "feel" about charter schools. If they aren't working, they shouldn't receive scarce resources to make little Johnny's mom and dad feel better.
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So those scare resources should be spent on public schools that fail them, because YOU know whats best for their kids?

Ok Dung.
 
cawacko said:
You just go from calling me unemployed and can't a job to being rich? I wish that was the case. Should I (others) just sit back and say since this problem doesn't affect me I shouldn't care about it and who really cares if these poor minority kids are stuck in failing schools?
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Should you care more than their own parents? Maybe you could do something about it? You say you are unemployed, maybe you could volunteer to help tutor these underprivileged children. It's a thought.
 
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