Debate day

Darth Omar

Russian asset
It's the big debate day between Hillary and Trump. I may actually watch it live instead of waiting for the highlights tomorrow lol.

Today's RCP polls show Hillary with a slim lead [withing the margin of error] but falling off in the general election numbers. She's up 4.6 in PA [she was up double digits a month ago] but the rest of the battleground states are essentially a dead heat.

If the election were today you could flip a coin and call it in the air.

Hillary needs to have a good debate. Trump has less pressure on him---but needs to not hurt himself. And that's always an issue with Trump.
 
The debates mean pretty much squat. One can lose the presidency via a poor performance but no one has won the Presidency via an exceptional performance. Why is that? Because they are not debates. They are joint, bilateral press conferences. The moderator will ask questions. Which is the problem. In a real debate the opponents ask each other questions. The moderator only intervenes if a participant violates the rules. They do not ask questions.

So instead of a real debate you get a joint press conference where the moderator, always a journalist, ask questions, and the politician responds, usually, with well rehearsed canned talking points.

There have only been two debates in my lifetime in which the Debates played a significant role. 1980 and 1988. In 1980 Carter, the technocrat, blew the so-called debate not on the technical merits of his arguments. He completely rolled Reagan up there. Carter offered specific answers to complex policy issues. Reagan offered glib platitudes. The difference was in tone. Carter came off as extremely pessimistic and Reagan came off as a bright and shiny optimist. Carters polls numbers dropped significantly after that but not as much as is often claimed. Their debate was rare in that it had an impact on the outcome but it is often exaggerated.

That's not the case in the 1988 so called Debate where the CNN Moderator asked Dukakis a completely inappropriate question about rape and murder and Dukakis panned the answer. He went from a substantial lead to losing the whole shebang.

Note to Clinton. If a moderator ask you what you would do if a criminal sodomized and murdered Bill...tell them you would shoot the mother fucker.

If Trump tries tonight what he did in the GOP primaries, he's sunk. The biggest problem Trump has to deal with is the perception that he lacks the temperament to be President. Trump will not only clearly need to elucidate clear policy points, which he has yet to do, more importantly he will had to do it with some gravitas. The perception about Trump that really hurts him with the part of the electorate he needs the most, college educated whites is that he's perceived as a bombastic, egotistical, salesman with a line of bullshit sales pitch that only a prole would fall for. He needs to make deep inroads there.

Clinton on the other hand needs to go on the attack. Her wait and let Trump shoot himself in the foot is only partially effective. He certainly has shot himself in the foot enough but she has to be more aggressive in attacking him on that.

I'll watch tonight and I'm sure there be lots of partisan claims of a great victory by both sides partisans but I'm going to watch it with the same attitude that I have with most so called Presidential debates. That it won't amount to squat, which has been the case with most of them.
 
I agree that election outcomes don't typically turn on debates and it's likely this one won't either.

But nothing about this cycle has been typical thus far.
 
The NYT had a good article this weekend interviewing the people closely involved with the first gore bush debate which many of them feel turned the election to Bush.

And with much disgust towards both candidates this year and a number of people on the fence between either who they dislike least or will they turn out to vote at all there is definitely a lot riding on it.
 
The NYT had a good article this weekend interviewing the people closely involved with the first gore bush debate which many of them feel turned the election to Bush.

And with much disgust towards both candidates this year and a number of people on the fence between either who they dislike least or will they turn out to vote at all there is definitely a lot riding on it.

That's why I'm leaning towards this debate being meaningful.
 
if Trump doesn't meet the left's expectations and erupt into a flaming fount of vitriol, Hillary loses......of course, he could kiss a puppy and the left will claim its Vesuvius....
 
Clinton's forte' is debate. Trump can't blow up,and has to at least sound like he takes this seriously
 
The debates mean pretty much squat. One can lose the presidency via a poor performance but no one has won the Presidency via an exceptional performance. Why is that? Because they are not debates. They are joint, bilateral press conferences. The moderator will ask questions. Which is the problem. In a real debate the opponents ask each other questions. The moderator only intervenes if a participant violates the rules. They do not ask questions.

So instead of a real debate you get a joint press conference where the moderator, always a journalist, ask questions, and the politician responds, usually, with well rehearsed canned talking points.

There have only been two debates in my lifetime in which the Debates played a significant role. 1980 and 1988. In 1980 Carter, the technocrat, blew the so-called debate not on the technical merits of his arguments. He completely rolled Reagan up there. Carter offered specific answers to complex policy issues. Reagan offered glib platitudes. The difference was in tone. Carter came off as extremely pessimistic and Reagan came off as a bright and shiny optimist. Carters polls numbers dropped significantly after that but not as much as is often claimed. Their debate was rare in that it had an impact on the outcome but it is often exaggerated.

That's not the case in the 1988 so called Debate where the CNN Moderator asked Dukakis a completely inappropriate question about rape and murder and Dukakis panned the answer. He went from a substantial lead to losing the whole shebang.

Note to Clinton. If a moderator ask you what you would do if a criminal sodomized and murdered Bill...tell them you would shoot the mother fucker.

If Trump tries tonight what he did in the GOP primaries, he's sunk. The biggest problem Trump has to deal with is the perception that he lacks the temperament to be President. Trump will not only clearly need to elucidate clear policy points, which he has yet to do, more importantly he will had to do it with some gravitas. The perception about Trump that really hurts him with the part of the electorate he needs the most, college educated whites is that he's perceived as a bombastic, egotistical, salesman with a line of bullshit sales pitch that only a prole would fall for. He needs to make deep inroads there.

Clinton on the other hand needs to go on the attack. Her wait and let Trump shoot himself in the foot is only partially effective. He certainly has shot himself in the foot enough but she has to be more aggressive in attacking him on that.

I'll watch tonight and I'm sure there be lots of partisan claims of a great victory by both sides partisans but I'm going to watch it with the same attitude that I have with most so called Presidential debates. That it won't amount to squat, which has been the case with most of them.


I could be wrong, its dangerous to predict what Trump is going to do, but I suspect you will see the most mild mannered version of Trump yet. I think Kelly Anne Conway is keeping his balls in a box backstage.

Trump is a hair behind and believes he has the momentum. I think he plays it safe.
 
I suspect the most hyped debate ever will be the biggest snoozer since Cheney - Lieberman.
 
Darn autocorrect, what I meant to say was: It'll be interesting to see Trump play to a room that isn't 99% troglodytes.

Awwww....it's so cute watching Liberals jump from Deplorable to troglodytes. Sadly, it doesn't make the stupidity of such comments look any less ignorant.
 
Clinton's forte' is debate. Trump can't blow up,and has to at least sound like he takes this seriously

In theory at least, Clinton should own him on policy and issues, but here's the rub: Hillary's record sucks. Granted, she could go back to her Senator from NY days and talk about how she worked with Republicans or helped people in her district---but her record in the State Department is abysmal, and people aren't all that interested in what she accomplished in the Senate, if anything lol.

It would be different if she could point to the Middle East and say 'look at how calm things are there' or 'look at how we reigned in Putin' or solved the Syrian crisis or etc etc etc.

But every time she opens her mouth on it, it will provide an opening for Trump. Whether he can take it without hurting himself in the process is the only question.
 
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