Crowds flock to reopened Jacksonville beaches as Florida hits record coronavirus case

LV426 said:
I'm not sure it's an effective argument to measure our standard of living vs. other countries. In fact, it feels like an act of avoidance and cowardice.

Like, we have structural issues that you avoid addressing by saying "well, it's worse in X country". It's a tactic meant to sidetrack the conversation from our country's own vulnerabilities.
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You asked me a question and now you're pissed off at the answer? WTF?

In his book "Leviathan", Thomas Hobbes describes the natural state humankind would be in, were it not for political community:
In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.​

The problem I pointed out is that, with our community, our people become "spoiled". They've become Eloi, in a world full of Morlocks.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
You asked me a question and now you're pissed off at the answer? WTF?

In his book "Leviathan", Thomas Hobbes describes the natural state humankind would be in, were it not for political community:
In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.​

The problem I pointed out is that, with our community, our people become "spoiled". They've become Eloi, in a world full of Morlocks.
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Nice reference:)
 
Life is Golden said:
Well I've changed my mind thinking you are Owl's sock. :laugh:
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I am no one's sock nor do I have any. I think socks are lame. Mason got really pissed off at me for saying that puppeteers are lame cowards or, if they are very good at it, mentally ill sociopaths and/or schizophrenics.

Do you have any guesses on why he became so upset with me for posting that opinion several times?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
The problem I pointed out is that, with our community, our people become "spoiled". They've become Eloi, in a world full of Morlocks.
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You want to blame the people for being "spoiled" but not the economic system that caused them to be that way?
 
LV426 said:
You want to blame the people for being "spoiled" but not the economic system that caused them to be that way?
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Do you really believe an economic system makes or forces people to be a certain way? Do you really have such little respect for people that you think they are no better than lab rats which can be trained to press a button for food?

If that's true, then why are you upset 3-9 million of those lab rats could die if we returned our lives to normal?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
You asked me a question and now you're pissed off at the answer? WTF?

In his book "Leviathan", Thomas Hobbes describes the natural state humankind would be in, were it not for political community:
In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.​

The problem I pointed out is that, with our community, our people become "spoiled". They've become Eloi, in a world full of Morlocks.
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"Americans need to struggle more" is not as sound an argument as you think it is.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Sure. Some people are rich and some people telecommute. What percentage of working Americans do you think can stay home and not go broke?

Go for it. Just don't expect you can force everyone else to do the same.
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My entire company is telecommuting, and I think most major companies are doing the same. Telecommuting represents a huge percentage of the workforce. I'd say at this point it represents at least 30%, it was approaching that number before this started. What we're talking about is opening up businesses that rely on discretionary spending. I don't think those businesses are going to come back sans a vaccine, even if we said everything is open for business. For example, maybe the first large business to shut their doors was the NBA. They weren't forced to, they did it to protect their fans and their employees. 'Opening up' isn't going to get the NBA to resume their season, it isn't going to get MLB, or the NFL or the NHL to resume either. How many movie theaters are going to reopen when there is a lack of new releases and they won't be able to fill half their seats? How many bars will re-open when there is no one on the other side of the bar? How many plays are going to open to half filled theaters? The reality is that the VIRUS is causing the 'lockdown'. The governors are simply attempting to enforce compliance to social distancing. I'm ready to give up on that, because there are too many people who don't believe this is a big deal. So open up. The consequences of that will manifest at the ballot box.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Do you really believe an economic system makes or forces people to be a certain way?
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Well, you all say socialism makes people lazy, so....it would seem you believe that, not me.

I think the capitalist free market economy is fragile and weak, and we're seeing those vulnerabilities laid bare by this crisis.

What is the "Free market's" answer for 24M people losing their jobs and health care?


Do you really have such little respect for people that you think they are no better than lab rats which can be trained to press a button for food?
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What do you think capitalism is?????????
 
Dutch Uncle said:
There is always a transition period in things like this but this isn't 9/11 or the banking collapse. It's a disease. Most people think they are immune or "no worse than the flu" as shown by people on this forum. People will be anxious to get out to both make and spend money. The economy should be humming along by Election Day.....and the funeral industry will see a huuuuge boost in operations. Maybe simple cremations will become more popular.
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Can I save this lol?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
I am no one's sock nor do I have any. I think socks are lame. Mason got really pissed off at me for saying that puppeteers are lame cowards or, if they are very good at it, mentally ill sociopaths and/or schizophrenics.

Do you have any guesses on why he became so upset with me for posting that opinion several times?
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Because he has like 50 socks. Seriously. Ok I was wrong about you.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
I am no one's sock nor do I have any. I think socks are lame. Mason got really pissed off at me for saying that puppeteers are lame cowards or, if they are very good at it, mentally ill sociopaths and/or schizophrenics.

Do you have any guesses on why he became so upset with me for posting that opinion several times?
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I'm going to guess he was a huge fan of 'Being John Malkovich'?

I know it's an obscure reference, but how many times do I get to respond to a post that has the word 'puppeteer' in it. :laugh:
 
Dutch Uncle said:
If that's true, then why are you upset 3-9 million of those lab rats could die if we returned our lives to normal?
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You know how I can tell you're a sock? Because of posts like this. Posts that have that shitty undercurrent of shame and embarrassment, that are bathed in sophistry and bad faith. I know I've seen this same argument from your other socks before. And like those other socks, I am going to smack it down:

Firstly, you are the one who said 3% of the population would die. So, 3% of 330M isn't 3 million. It isn't 5 million. It isn't 9 million. It's 9.9M. So get your math right.

Secondly, the reason I am concerned about those 9.9M people dying is because not all of them are so callously ignorant of the severity of the virus as you; those people will take all the necessary precautions to prevent contracting the virus, but all of that is moot if you don't yourself. Or if your neighbor doesn't. Or if your parents don't. Because while I wish this disease would only infect the people who don't think it's a big deal, the reality is that it doesn't discriminate like that, and young people are just as much at risk as old people. We've all seen the stories of 20/30-somethings with no prior health conditions being struck down by COVID.

What you are doing on JPP is reckless and irresponsible. It's tantamount to manslaughter because you are actively trying to convince people to go out and spread the virus because you don't want to lose a debate on a fucking anonymous message board.
 
LV426 said:
Well, you all say socialism makes people lazy, so....it would seem you believe that, not me.

I think the capitalist free market economy is fragile and weak, and we're seeing those vulnerabilities laid bare by this crisis.

What is the "Free market's" answer for 24M people losing their jobs and health care?

What do you think capitalism is?????????
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I said socialism doesn't work above the tribal/village level. When did I ever say it makes people lazy? Citation, please.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
I said socialism doesn't work above the tribal/village level.
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Of course it does. Canada is not a tribe or village and they seem perfectly OK with their socialized health care. Hell, 65 million Americans are socialists who are on Medicare right now.

Stop.
 
LV426 said:
You know how I can tell you're a sock? Because of posts like this. Posts that have that shitty undercurrent of shame and embarrassment, that are bathed in sophistry and bad faith. I know I've seen this same argument from your other socks before. And like those other socks, I am going to smack it down:

Firstly, you are the one who said 3% of the population would die. So, 3% of 330M isn't 3 million. It isn't 5 million. It isn't 9 million. It's 9.9M. So get your math right.

Secondly, the reason I am concerned about those 9.9M people dying is because not all of them are so callously ignorant of the severity of the virus as you; those people will take all the necessary precautions to prevent contracting the virus, but all of that is moot if you don't yourself. Or if your neighbor doesn't. Or if your parents don't. Because while I wish this disease would only infect the people who don't think it's a big deal, the reality is that it doesn't discriminate like that, and young people are just as much at risk as old people. We've all seen the stories of 20/30-somethings with no prior health conditions being struck down by COVID.

What you are doing on JPP is reckless and irresponsible. It's tantamount to manslaughter because you are actively trying to convince people to go out and spread the virus because you don't want to lose a debate on a fucking anonymous message board.
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Meltdown complete!
 
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