Crimeans; ' We will never be Ukrainian again '
- Thread starter moon
- Start date
Votes after an invasion are questionable. There were a lot of people expelled and disappeared in the Crimea who probably would have voted differently. Or put another way, Germany got 99.73% approval from Austria to join Germany, after an invasion.
Crimea has changed countries often, and may change again. It would be easy to say that Austria would never leave Germany, after 99.73% voted to join, but immediately after WWII, Austria was claiming to be just another victim of German aggression.
I see no way for Crimea to leave Russia, but four months ago, I could see no way that Ukraine could hold out against the Russians for more than a week or two... AND HERE WE ARE.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Austrian_Anschluss_referendum
Two thirds of the current Crimeans are Russian speakers, but there are many Russian speakers who feel very Ukrainian. Crimea's history is being traded back and forth among many different countries. The Russians speakers there now are due to forced migration of the Imperial Russians, and the USSR. Not a long history.
That being said, they are there now, and it would be tough for Ukraine to recapture the area. The population might be opposed, and the Ukrainians definitely do not want to deal with that. It looks like a reasonable end to this war would include at least tacit acceptance of Russian control of Crimea.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
Only Crimea? How many nations has Lwow been a part of over the last 1000 years?
Quite true. It is not unusual for three generations to be born in three different countries, but the same town.
But there are two different types of movement between countries. Cities like Lviv keep the same population, but move back and forth between countries. The Crimea has massive population movement. It is a little different.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
I said Lwow...not Lviv.
And you're an asshat...Crimea has always been Russian...can't say the same for Lwow.
And, yet again you didn't answer the question. The answer is 5 by the way.
moon
Satire for Sanity
Votes after ALL elections are questionable.
Your suggestion that Russia could spirit away massive numbers of Crimeans really is laughable.
In your choice of support I'd say that you are going to need a much, much bigger straw to cling to.
Lwow is the Polish spelling, and Lviv is the English spelling. It is the same city. In fact, modern Poles are using Lviv as spelling.
Crimea used to be part of the Ottoman Empire, and have a largely Muslim population. The Russian Empire, and later the Soviet Union did several massive population movements changing the mix of people there.
You are quite definitely wrong. In the last 110 years, it has been part of Astro-Hungarian Empire, Russian Empire, Poland, Ukraine Republic, USSR, and Ukraine. While the Ukraine Republic was not recognized by many countries, they rest were internationally recognized, so that is 5 or 6 in 110 years. You extend it back a thousand years, and you have many, many more.
After an invasion, they are extremely questionable. A military power has come in, and by force of arms taken control. Are the voters really willing to stand up to that military?
moon
Satire for Sanity
That wasn't the case with Crimea. The Crimeans see themselves as Russians and wanted to rejoin with Russia.
Same with Donetsk and Lugansk.
You Zelenskies always ignore the fact that many Ukrainians are loyal to Russia, not Zelensky.
The US promoted civil war with its overthrow of Ukraine's pro-Russian government in 2014.
That doesn't rate highly in your memory lists either.
Still- jaw away. The Crimeans say- ' We will never be Ukrainian again ' That's the way it is.
You might be right. Russia did expel thousands of Crimeans, and did disappear hundreds of Crimeans, but there is also many Crimeans who appear to have welcomed them. Russian speakers in the Crimea had a strong link to the Russian military, and so a weak link to Ukraine.
It would be dangerous for Ukraine to take back Crimea, even if they were winning the war. They could very well run into a local population that does not want them.
But "never" is a long time. Crimea has changed hands so many times, I would never predict it will "never" change hands again.
There are Russian speakers in both regions who have fought against Russia, and for Ukraine. There appear to be several million Russian speakers who also feel they are Ukrainian.
Monad Portal
Was it me?
as questionable as the 2020 ballot harvested and stuffed fake biden win?