Could A Good God Permit So Much Suffering?

[Into the Night]

No.
The behavior of physical matter and energy behaves lawfully and predictably and is therefore intelligible to human consciousness.

More of your BS and buzzwords.

The people that created the theories of science and transcribed it into mathematics WROTE the law, Sybil. Reversal fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

You're right.

I don't think you've ever been right (certainly not as long as I've been on JPP!). Trying to agree with yourself does not make anything right.

 

[Into the Night]

It's Spirit,beyond the Laws of Physics!

What makes you think a spirit is beyond the laws of physics?

 

[Into the Night]

Sheep have faith in their shepherd but no common sense.

Sheep aren't raised to be butchered, Sybil!
They are raised for their hair. You don't have to kill a sheep to shear it!

 

[Into the Night]

but a priest in a cathedral is telling science stories, of course.

you're just a cynical theocratic douche-nozzle.

Science isn't a 'story', NoName, although theories of science each have a fascinating history behind them.

 

[Into the Night]

Dems ran the dumbest lady on earth.

I gotta agree with that one! Even sheep or chickens are smarter!

 

[Into the Night]

I don't take math classes from people who never had calculus or trigonometry.

You don't take math classes.

 

[Cypress]

More of your BS and buzzwords.

The people that created the theories of science and transcribed it into mathematics WROTE the law, Sybil. Reversal fallacy.

Right, so the law of universal gravitation never existed before Newton wrote it down

Have you considered seeing a psychiatrist?

 

[Into the Night]

Right, so the law of universal gravitation never existed before Newton wrote it down

Have you considered seeing a psychiatrist?

While Newton's law of gravitation does relate gravity to the presence of mass, it never describes what gravity is, other than a force. Newton simply accepted it as immutable. Newton's law did not exist before he wrote it down. It appears in The Principia.

I don't believe in the expertise of a psychiatrist. It's quackery. It can be just as destructive as another form of quackery, chiropractive 'healing'.

 

[Cypress]

While Newton's law of gravitation does relate gravity to the presence of mass, it never describes what gravity is

That's not what you wrote, and now you're trying to backtrack and modify what you originally stated.

You wrote in post 568 that the law of universal gravitation was a creation of humans and the law of gravity didn't exist until Newton wrote an equation.

 

[gmark77]

Kinda fun that the current discussion has turned to ISAAC NEWTON, a man with some pretty weird religious beliefs.

But at least, as I understand him, he believed that one should not view something like some physical law as a clockwork mechanism ticking away in the background but he held that many things in the physical universe demanded the current intervention of something to mediate them. God?

Tis inconceivable that inanimate brute matter should (without the mediation of something else which is not material) operate upon & affect other matter without mutual contact; as it must if ‘gravitation’ in the sense of Epicurus be essential & inherent in it. And this is one reason why I desired you would not ascribe {innate} ‘gravity’ to me. That ‘gravity’ should be innate inherent & {essential} to matter so that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum without the mediation of any thing else by & through which their action or force {may} be conveyed from one to another is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man who has in philosophical matters any competent faculty of thinking can ever fall into it. ‘Gravity’ must be caused by an agent {acting} constantly according to certain laws, but whether this agent be material or immaterial is a question I have left to the consideration of my readers.”– Isaac Newton

(Richard Bentley “189.R.4.47, ff. 7-8, Trinity College Library, Cambridge, UK, 1692)

He also was no fan of atheism despite his seemingly self-created belief system.

That's the fun thing about "God" in general. It's such an open-ended concept and since there is literally zero evidence for any of these, a plethora of versions of God spring up like weeds. God is literally whatever the individual believer needs it to be and is thence constructed to be.

I guess the biggest question is: if there is a God whose only role is to be the creator who set up the laws and made sure math worked and the only reason to suspect he exists is because there are laws and math works, then what is the value in having that information? It provides nothing of any real value other than to be a place-holder.

What's the point of coming up with an unprovable, unevidenced explanation for a mystery that may not even be a mystery?

 

[Cypress]

Deathbed conversions are always interesting to me. For the most part, it seems there's more a rejection of religious dogma and hypocrisy from religious leaders than the rejection of believing there is more to life than what is in front of our noses.

I think you're right.
Jean Paul Satre seemed to struggle a little with the implications of atheism, and in one of the last interviews he gave before he died he seemed to be making a pivot towards religious belief:

“I do not feel like the product of chance, a speck of dust in the universe, but someone who was awaited, prepared, prefigured. In short, a being that only a Creator could have placed here. And this idea of a creative hand refers to God.” (from “Nouvel Observateur”, 1980).​

​

Reportedly, his atheist lover Simone de Beauvoir became outraged when she got wind of his 'conversion'. LOL

 

[Based Chad]

Kinda fun that the current discussion has turned to ISAAC NEWTON, a man with some pretty weird religious beliefs.

But at least, as I understand him, he believed that one should not view something like some physical law as a clockwork mechanism ticking away in the background but he held that many things in the physical universe demanded the current intervention of something to mediate them. God?

Tis inconceivable that inanimate brute matter should (without the mediation of something else which is not material) operate upon & affect other matter without mutual contact; as it must if ‘gravitation’ in the sense of Epicurus be essential & inherent in it. And this is one reason why I desired you would not ascribe {innate} ‘gravity’ to me. That ‘gravity’ should be innate inherent & {essential} to matter so that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum without the mediation of any thing else by & through which their action or force {may} be conveyed from one to another is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man who has in philosophical matters any competent faculty of thinking can ever fall into it. ‘Gravity’ must be caused by an agent {acting} constantly according to certain laws, but whether this agent be material or immaterial is a question I have left to the consideration of my readers.”– Isaac Newton

(Richard Bentley “189.R.4.47, ff. 7-8, Trinity College Library, Cambridge, UK, 1692)

He also was no fan of atheism despite his seemingly self-created belief system.

That's the fun thing about "God" in general. It's such an open-ended concept and since there is literally zero evidence for any of these, a plethora of versions of God spring up like weeds. God is literally whatever the individual believer needs it to be and is thence constructed to be.

I guess the biggest question is: if there is a God whose only role is to be the creator who set up the laws and made sure math worked and the only reason to suspect he exists is because there are laws and math works, then what is the value in having that information? It provides nothing of any real value other than to be a place-holder.

What's the point of coming up with an unprovable, unevidenced explanation for a mystery that may not even be a mystery?

Science isn't a 'story', NoName, although theories of science each have a fascinating history behind them.

but the bible is. you missed the point.

why don't you just simmer down and stay off my jock without a point.

 

[Based Chad]

I think you're right.
Jean Paul Satre seemed to struggle a little with the implications of atheism, and in one of the last interviews he gave before he died he seemed to be making a pivot towards religious belief:

“I do not feel like the product of chance, a speck of dust in the universe, but someone who was awaited, prepared, prefigured. In short, a being that only a Creator could have placed here. And this idea of a creative hand refers to God.” (from “Nouvel Observateur”, 1980).​

​

Reportedly, his atheist lover Simone de Beauvoir became outraged when she got wind of his 'conversion'. LOL

this doesn't mean he became catholic, you papist monstrousity.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think you're right.
Jean Paul Satre seemed to struggle a little with the implications of atheism, and in one of the last interviews he gave before he died he seemed to be making a pivot towards religious belief:

“I do not feel like the product of chance, a speck of dust in the universe, but someone who was awaited, prepared, prefigured. In short, a being that only a Creator could have placed here. And this idea of a creative hand refers to God.” (from “Nouvel Observateur”, 1980).​

​

Reportedly, his atheist lover Simone de Beauvoir became outraged when she got wind of his 'conversion'. LOL

That's a pretty spiritual observation on his part.

Simone de Beauvoir was hot. Smart, aggressive and a bit of a bitch.

 

[Cypress]

Gravity is a force.

No, that idea is more than 100 years out of date.

Strictly speaking, gravity is the curvature of spacetime which determines how objects move in geodesic paths. That's what the theory of general relativity demonstrated way back in 1915.

(Edit to add 1915 publication date of theory of general relativity)

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No, that idea is more than 100 years out of date.

Strictly speaking, gravity is the curvature of spacetime which determines how matter moves in geodesic paths.

The mentally ill do not believe in gravity. This is why I advise many of them to prove they can fly off a ten story building. It's a matter of will.

 

[Cypress]

The mentally ill do not believe in gravity. This is why I advise many of them to prove they can fly off a ten story building. It's a matter of will.

There is a lot of work for psychiatrists on this board, assuming insurance will pay for it!

 

[Cypress]

this doesn't mean he became catholic, you papist monstrousity.

Reading comprehension problems again??!

I wrote nothing about Catholics.

What I read is that Sartre was having discussions with his Jewish friend, and may have been pivoting towards some kind of messianic Judaism.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There is a lot of work for psychiatrists on this board, assuming insurance will pay for it!

A major problem in our nation since most insurance doesn't cover much treatment. There are options with group therapy being a good one. There are free ones such as church or AA. A mentally ill person sitting in on an AA meeting could find meaning and support there.