Could A Good God Permit So Much Suffering?

[Cypress]

I do not give a shit about spirituality.

I referenced your comment that white Europeans and North Americans are more rational than the global south.

The fact that Hindus and Muslims from South Asia have won Nobel prizes in physics tells me that being religious and being from the global south does not preclude rationality.

 

[Based Chad]

Nice work.

We have definitely moved the discourse past longstanding atheist claims that believing in theism is just as irrational and unreasonable as believing in invisible leprechauns.

There's no question theism can be based on reason and logical inference.

I would modify to say the classical Christian apologist position is not only based the appearance of the universe out of nothing 13.7 billion years ago.

The classical Christian apologist reasoning for theism is based on multiple, mutually supporting lines of rational reasoning.

There is your cosmological argument.

There is the teleological argument.

There is the moral argument.

And there is the witness testimony about Jesus, at least the reliable parts.


I think the cosmological argument and teleological argument are pretty powerful. There really is no convincing argument to really undermine them at this time.

it is just as irrational.

the actual point is morality which you obviously don't possess since you support genocide based on some psychotic heretical version of "judeo-christianity", which isn't a thing.

 

[Based Chad]

This is very interesting. You seem to be defending Christianity as rational and reasonable and clearly the version of God you are defending here. But I'm curious why if you follow it up with saying you are thinking it is possible Jesus didn't die on the cross.

So why would you defend a religion whose core concept you seem to either not be certain of or which you understand somewhat incompletely?

If Christianity is a rational belief system one must be absolutely 100% certain of the death on the cross. The sacrifice is what makes the religion.

no the golden rule makes the religion.

that's the revolution of morality in that it rejects the tribalism/racism of judaism.

 

[Hume]

I referenced your comment that white Europeans and North Americans are more rational than the global south.

The fact that Hindus and Muslims from South Asia have won Nobel prizes in physics tells me that being religious and being from the global south does not preclude rationality.

look...I find religion boring...really do not care

 

[Cypress]

look...I find religion boring...really do not care

You're the one who started this thread on religion.

 

[Cypress]

L

This is very interesting. You seem to be defending Christianity as rational and reasonable and clearly the version of God you are defending here. But I'm curious why if you follow it up with saying you are thinking it is possible Jesus didn't die on the cross.

I can defend the rational basis of Adam Smith, Karl Marx, and CS Lewis, without having to agree with everything they said or did.

The underlying premise of the original post is to question the rationality of Christianity. That's a standard atheist tactic. Unless we want this to be a board where nobody ever disagrees, I decided to jump in with an alternate viewpoint. I think there is a rational basis for theism, whether it be Christianity, Buddhism, or Rabbinic Judaism.

So why would you defend a religion whose core concept you seem to either not be certain of or which you understand somewhat incompletely?

If Christianity is a rational belief system one must be absolutely 100% certain of the death on the cross. The sacrifice is what makes the religion.

See my answers above

 

[Margot]

I think the God of the Jews abandoned this rock.

Well ,there's an Israel in the center of the worlds Drama!
Melchizedek has been dispatched for "The Harvest" it's the calm before the storm! So never fear YHWH is on the job!

 

[Margot]

It's generally a white male of European descent who believes miracles and transcendent experiences are impossible. Billions of brown, black, and Asian people are convinced there are miracles and a transcendent reality. I'm not going to be the great European colonialist and tell them their ideas are idiotic.

Atheists believe in miracles too. The miracle that something can come from nothing, that order and design can come from chaos.

All ancient literature contains hyperbole, metaphor, exaggeration, misinformation.
That includes Herodotus, Thucydides, and the New Testament. They did not have the same understanding of analytical history and biography that we do.

The only things you really need to believe in to be Christian is:
1) There was an itinerant Jewish rabbi and healer named Jesus who taught in and around Galilee.
2) Jesus was crucified by Pontius Pilate.
3) The followers of Jesus came to genuinely believe they saw him after his crucifixion.

Even the great atheist biblical scholar Bart Ehrman agrees these three beliefs are based on reliable witness testimony. The only question remaining is if the disciples were all hallucinating, or not.


If you can't use inanimate materialism to offer a better explanation for the order, design, and creation of the universe, then you are telling me either you are agnostic, or that you can't give any convincing arguments that would undermine the theist lines of reasoning.

The lowest common denominator is Jesus came as Passover Lamb ,so at the final "Passover" the "Harvest" ,Apollyon will be able to Passover those that have drank the blood and ate the flesh of the Passover Lamb Jesus! What Catholics call the Eucharist!

 

[Based Chad]

I can defend the rational basis of Adam Smith, Karl Marx, and CS Lewis, without having to agree with everything they said or did.

The underlying premise of the original post is to question the rationality of Christianity. That's a standard atheist tactic. Unless we want this to be a board where nobody ever disagrees, I decided to jump in with an alternate viewpoint. I think there is a rational basis for theism, whether it be Christianity, Buddhism, or Rabbinic Judaism.

See my answers above

yes. morality is the rational basis.

you're just a babblin fucking idiot.

 

[TravisBickle]

Well ,there's an Israel in the center of the worlds Drama!
Melchizedek has been dispatched for "The Harvest" it's the calm before the storm! So never fear YHWH is on the job!

Numbers 31
Vengeance on the Midianites
1And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2“Take vengeance on the Midianites for the children of Israel. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people.”
3So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm some of yourselves for war, and let them go against the Midianites to take vengeance for the Lord on Midian. 4A thousand from each tribe of all the tribes of Israel you shall send to the war.”
5So there were recruited from the divisions of Israel one thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 6Then Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from each tribe; he sent them to the war with Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, with the holy articles and the signal trumpets in his hand. 7And they warred against the Midianites, just as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed all the males. 8They killed the kings of Midian with the rest of those who were killed—Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba, the five kings of Midian. Balaam the son of Beor they also killed with the sword.
9And the children of Israel took the women of Midian captive, with their little ones, and took as spoil all their cattle, all their flocks, and all their goods. 10They also burned with fire all the cities where they dwelt, and all their forts. 11And they took all the spoil and all the booty—of man and beast.

 

[Based Chad]

Numbers 31
Vengeance on the Midianites
1And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2“Take vengeance on the Midianites for the children of Israel. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people.”
3So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm some of yourselves for war, and let them go against the Midianites to take vengeance for the Lord on Midian. 4A thousand from each tribe of all the tribes of Israel you shall send to the war.”
5So there were recruited from the divisions of Israel one thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 6Then Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from each tribe; he sent them to the war with Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, with the holy articles and the signal trumpets in his hand. 7And they warred against the Midianites, just as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed all the males. 8They killed the kings of Midian with the rest of those who were killed—Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba, the five kings of Midian. Balaam the son of Beor they also killed with the sword.
9And the children of Israel took the women of Midian captive, with their little ones, and took as spoil all their cattle, all their flocks, and all their goods. 10They also burned with fire all the cities where they dwelt, and all their forts. 11And they took all the spoil and all the booty—of man and beast.

have you looked into Christianity?

its not as inherenty violent or racist.

 

[Hume]

You're the one who started this thread on religion.

Not about religion. You really have a hard time understanding things.