Conservatives drinking themselves to death out of DESPAIR

[LV426]

I don't know the answer to that

THEN WHY ARE YOU ARGUING WITH ME THAT YOU DO!?!?!?!

You started off saying poor people voted for Clinton, then you dodged and avoided answering which poor people voted for Clinton, then you posted unsourced figures that don't have any context like this:

Men: 45%
Women: 55%
White: 74%
Black: 10%
Hispanic: 10%
College Grad: 37%
Non-College: 63%

What is this? What am I looking at? Is this Trump's share? Is this Clinton's share? What is the context for this?

If this is Trump's share then it's exactly what I said; Trump's base are white, uneducated assholes.

 

[Flash]

Moron, the study is about middle aged white people's mortality rate increasing since 2000 because of drugs and booze related to despair.

Why do you have such a hard time dealing with the subject of the OP?

I know what the study was about. Obviously some of that group was in the below $30,000 income group. Since most of the under $30,000 were white those killing themselves with drugs and alcohol were the least likely to vote. So, it is ridiculous for anybody to claim very many Trump (or Hillary) voters were among the white middle-age killing themselves with drugs and alcohol.

Did the study say anything about the income level of that group?

 

[LV426]

Obviously some of that group was in the below $30,000 income group.

Yes, that is what low-income means.

But remember, it was about white people.

Since most of the under $30,000 were white those killing themselves with drugs and alcohol were the least likely to vote.

Yet they still voted, and please show me the scientific basis that says if someone is depressed, they won't vote in an election?

Poor white trash drinking themselves to death out of despair for their station in life sounds exactly like the typical white trash Trump voter.

So, it is ridiculous for anybody to claim very many Drumpf (or Hillary) voters were among the white middle-age killing themselves with drugs and alcohol.

1. You can't make this conclusion without identifying the % of white trash voters who actually voted, which is something you have yet to show in this debate. You keep broadening out low-income voters to include all groups, when we are specifically talking about white people. You even posted yourself that more than half of the poor voters who didn't vote were non-white. So that would mean that a majority of poor white trash did vote, right? Because, math.

You said about 60% of poor people didn't vote (didn't source that, but OK).
You said that more than half that didn't vote were nonwhite (not sourced, but OK)
So because of math, we know that a majority of poor white trash did vote in 2016, and 63% of them voted for Trump.

You also cut it off at $30K arbitrarily...I think we need to go up as high as $53K, which is the mid-point for the country.

So...for your argument to work, you need to provide some missing information:

1. What % of eligible voters with income below $53K were white?
2. Of that group, what % voted?
3. Of the % that voted, what % voted for Trump?

Of course it's Trump voters because what other group of aggrieved, underachieving, uneducated, middle aged white people could the study be referring to?

 

[Flash]

THEN WHY ARE YOU ARGUING WITH ME THAT YOU DO!?!?!?!

You started off saying poor people voted for Clinton, then you dodged and avoided answering which poor people voted for Clinton, then you posted unsourced figures that don't have any context like this:

What is this? What am I looking at? Is this Trump's share? Is this Clinton's share? What is the context for this?

If this is Trump's share then it's exactly what I said; Trump's base are white, uneducated assholes.

That is the percentage of each group of the total electorate. 45% of all voters were men.

All studies show a majority of lower income groups vote Democratic (that has been true for many years--1930's).
Most of those studies do not break down those income categories by race, etc.

Since a majority of those below $30,000 and below $50,000 voted Democratic, that makes more of Hillary's voters uneducated assholes but including more minorities. Trump's base came more from the higher income groups (above $50,000).

I guess I need to simply more.

 

[LV426]

That is the percentage of each group of the total electorate. 45% of all voters were men.

OK, great. But these are very generalized figures that don't address anything we're saying.

Hell, you didn't even include the income breakdown!

Sloppy, sloppy work.

 

[LV426]

All studies show a majority of lower income groups vote Democratic (that has been true for many years--1930's).
Most of those studies do not break down those income categories by race, etc

What about the studies that do? Unless you're going to now admit you're just talking out of your ass.

And among that lower income group, what is the % of white people voting Democratic? Bear in mind, Democrats have not won a majority of the white vote since 1964.

Again, you leave that information out because...why?

 

[LV426]

Since a majority of those below $30,000 and below $50,000 voted Democratic, that makes more of Hillary's voters uneducated assholes but including more minorities.

You said yourself that 63% of poor white trash voted for Trump.

So it would seem that the people who voted for Clinton who made that income were mostly just minorities, not the poor white trash killing itself with drugs and booze!

 

[LV426]

Trump's base came more from the higher income groups (above $50,000).

Not according to any data you provided!!!!!!!!

You're just making shit up now.

 

[Flash]

Yet they still voted, and please show me the scientific basis that says if someone is depressed, they won't vote in an election?

It is not that they don't vote, but they vote in very low numbers. If you need the scientific basis, here is one example:

"In this paper, I propose that depression is a political phenomenon insofar as it has political sources and consequences. I then investigate one aspect of this argument—whether depression reduces participation. I hypothesize that individuals with depression lack the motivation and physical capacity to vote and engage in other forms of political participation due to somatic problems and feelings of hopelessness and apathy."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4764256/

Obviously, low income white people killing themselves with drugs and alcohol is too small a group to be the "base" for any political candidate.

 

[Micawber]

It is evidence Republicans are very angry and bitter. Old white guys in beater trucks grumbling and texting. They are everywhere!

 

[LV426]

Trump's base came more from the higher income groups (above $50,000).

You sure about that? Let's do some due diligence in this...

Firstly, there are far, far, far more people in this country who make below $50,000 than above it.

Like, ridiculously far more.

So what you're trying to do is pretend that all income levels have the same # of people in them.

$50K might sound like a happy medium to you, but the reality is that 85% of workers in this country make less than $50K. Income of $30K puts you in the 67th percentile...so that means 67% of workers in this country make an income less than $30K.

That's a lot of people, isn't it?

So let's say that your figures are right and only 40% of people who make below $30K voted in the election in 2016...well, since 67% of all workers (and thus, all eligible voters) make under $30K, then that's a shitload of voters, isn't it? So since 63% of those poor voters -who are 67% of all voters- voted for Trump, and we know 75% of white people voted for Trump, how are poor white trash not Trump's base of support?

Your mistake is that you were treating all income groups equally and evenly...and that's a symptom of your "bothsiderism" that causes you to omit exculpatory information either because you're too lazy, or you're an asshole who knows it will undermine your argument.

 

[Flash]

What about the studies that do? Unless you're going to now admit you're just talking out of your ass.

And among that lower income group, what is the % of white people voting Democratic? Bear in mind, Democrats have not won a majority of the white vote since 1964.

Again, you leave that information out because...why?

Because it is not relevant. We are talking about income. The only relevance of race is when discussing the study about middle-aged white people killing themselves. That is too small a group to affect election results, especially since most do not vote.

Because we are talking about income.

 

[LV426]

I guess I need to simply more.

No, you need a lesson in math.

$50K is the 85th income percentile in the country.

Which means 85% of workers make $50K or less.

$30K is the 67th income percentile in the country.

Which means 67% of workers make $30K or less.

So Trump's base of support are low-income white trash -workers since he captured what percentage of the white trash vote for income under $50K?

 

[LV426]

It is not that they don't vote, but they vote in very low numbers. If you need the scientific basis, here is one example:

"In this paper, I propose that depression is a political phenomenon insofar as it has political sources and consequences. I then investigate one aspect of this argument—whether depression reduces participation. I hypothesize that individuals with depression lack the motivation and physical capacity to vote and engage in other forms of political participation due to somatic problems and feelings of hopelessness and apathy."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4764256/

Obviously, low income white people killing themselves with drugs and alcohol is too small a group to be the "base" for any political candidate.

What you forgot to mention (or you didn't forget, you just held it back) is that 85% of workers in this country make up to $50K a year.

So that kinda skews the totals for Trump's support doesn't it?

You were treating all income levels the same; you were assuming that all income levels are evenly represented, didn't you? You probably thought that half of all workers make $50K a year. You were working with that mistaken assumption, weren't you? It's OK to admit it...sloppy work is sloppy work.

Sloppy, sloppy work.

 

[LV426]

Obviously, low income white people killing themselves with drugs and alcohol is too small a group to be the "base" for any political candidate.

Not at all since 67% of workers make up to $30K a year, and 85% of workers make up to $50K.

You...left that information out, didn't you?

On purpose? Probably. No one would make that mistake accidentally unless they were a super fucking moron.

 

[Flash]

You sure about that? Let's do some due diligence in this...

Firstly, there are far, far, far more people in this country who make below $50,000 than above it.

Like, ridiculously far more.

So what you're trying to do is pretend that all income levels have the same # of people in them.

$50K might sound like a happy medium to you, but the reality is that 85% of workers in this country make less than $50K. Income of $30K puts you in the 67th percentile...so that means 67% of workers in this country make an income less than $30K.

That's a lot of people, isn't it?

So let's say that your figures are right and only 40% of people who make below $30K voted in the election in 2016...well, since 67% of all workers (and thus, all eligible voters) make under $30K, then that's a shitload of voters, isn't it? So since 63% of those poor voters -who are 67% of all voters- voted for Trump, and we know 75% of white people voted for Trump, how are poor white trash not Trump's base of support?

Your mistake is that you were treating all income groups equally and evenly...and that's a symptom of your "bothsiderism" that causes you to omit exculpatory information either because you're too lazy, or you're an asshole who knows it will undermine your argument.

The median family income is $61,858. Most voters are not in the lower income categories, they are a disproportionaly smaller percentage of voters. The higher the income (and education and age) the higher the voter turnout.

I did not set the income levels at anything. Those are the levels used by academic and polling organizations in the studies on election results. I just used the established studies and their income categories.

 

[LV426]

Because it is not relevant.

LOL!

The studies that take race into account aren't relevant because then they'll disprove your argument, right?

 

[LV426]

The only relevance of race is when discussing the study about middle-aged white people killing themselves.

AND voting for Trump.

 

[LV426]

hat is too small a group to affect election results, especially since most do not vote. Because we are talking about income.

LOL!

So...$30K a year is the 67th income percentile. So that means 67% of all workers in the US make up to $30K a year.

67%

Any percentage from that is going to be significant.

 

[LV426]

The median family income is $61,858. Most voters are not in the lower income categories, they are a disproportionaly smaller percentage of voters.

You keep saying this but it's simply not fucking true!

About 130,000,000 people voted in 2016 @ 55.7% turnout, which means there were about 235,000,000 eligible voters.

Now, of those 235M, about 157M make below $30K a year.

You said that 40% of people who make $30K a year or less voted, which means 62,800,000 of them voted (BTW - that's the total # of votes Trump got).

So right away, we know your argument is bullshit simply because the number of people who make under $30K who voted is almost identical to the total number of voters who chose Trump.

So you keep trying to diminish the significance of the poor vote, but it was about half of all the total votes cast in 2016.

So since about half of all the votes that were case in 2016 came from those who make under $30K, and according to you most of those under $30K who didn't vote were non-white, what does that mean for the total # and % of poor white trash votes for Trump?

Do the math.