Confused Libertarians?

It may well be a "keynote" for this year's Libertarian Party, I haven't kept up. I'm just pointing out, these are liberal suppositions and liberal agenda items, they have nothing to do with libertarianism.
if you haven't kept up, then how can you know what libertarianism is about?

No, based on your continued belief that government's role is to fight for liberal "causes" and not stay out of our lives.
further stupidity on your part.

I don't think anyone "redefined" anything. The government's #1 fundamental role is to protect the citizens from those who want to do us harm. Most true libertarians agree with this, it is a LIBERAL view that the "rights" of our enemies should be protected by Big Brother.
a patently false premise, further showing that you have no clue about Libertarianism.

I don't want government involved in marriage, I have stated this many times. I also don't want government redefining what marriage means and calling something marriage that isn't marriage, and forcing the people to accept that. Again, this is a liberal "cause" and has nothing to do with a libertarian philosophy. You are FINE with Big Government, as long as they are advocating liberal causes.
the shining moment of your ignorance, right there.


I'm the least delusional one in this particular conversation.
apparently I was wrong...THIS is your shining moment of ignorance.

You seem to think that Liberalism can masquerade as Libertarianism, and no one will notice. But I notice, and you call me "delusional" for it. Government interference is the same whether it's supporting a liberal "cause" or conservative ones. That's the one point you need to grasp here, to help you with your confusion. What you are espousing is a very LIBERAL philosophy, not a Libertarian one.
what you are espousing is your complete and total idiocy. Go get a real understanding of Libertarianism and come back. I might take you more seriously then.
 
if you haven't kept up, then how can you know what libertarianism is about?

Libertarianism is no more defined by the platform of the Libertarian Party in a given year, as Conservatism is defined by the GOP platform in a given year, or Liberalism is defined by the Democrat platform in a given year. There is a vast difference, sometimes, between the ideology and the associated political party. Apparently, Libertarianism has been hijacked by fanatical Liberals....and that is sad, indeed.

further stupidity on your part.

NAILED A POINT --- GOT AN AD HOM! Yea ME!

a patently false premise, further showing that you have no clue about Libertarianism.

Not a false premise at all, read Atlas Shrugged. Study up on Barry Goldwater. This is CENTRAL to Libertarian philosophy, the defense of the citizenry is government's only vital role. Aside from that, they should stay the hell out of our lives... THAT is Libertarianism.

the shining moment of your ignorance, right there.

NAILED ANOTHER POINT --- GOT ANOTHER AD HOM! Yea ME!

apparently I was wrong...THIS is your shining moment of ignorance.

AND ONE MORE FOR THE HAT TRICK!

what you are espousing is your complete and total idiocy. Go get a real understanding of Libertarianism and come back. I might take you more seriously then.

What I am espousing is what great Libertarian minds of the 20th Century espoused. What YOU are espousing is LIBERALISM, and you are wrapping it in Libertarianism bacon, and trying to pretend it's good. I'm nailing that ass up one side of the board and down the other, and all you can do is hurl ad homs. But I am enjoying this, I love clocking liberal ass, I can do it all day long and never tire of it.
 
It's obvious that there are quite a few people who are either clueless about Libertarianism or are desperately trying to redefine it in hopes that they will vote for Romney.
 
lol... that is actually not too far off... you are at least a lot closer than Ditzie... though that isn't saying much


Republicans that aren't Jesus freaks? Really? You think that defines Libertarianism?

Can you show us any platform from any year of the Republican party, where "Jesus" was mentioned?
 
It's obvious that there are quite a few people who are either clueless about Libertarianism or are desperately trying to redefine it in hopes that they will vote for Romney.

Yes, there are quite a few here who are clueless about libertarianism, but they are desperately trying to wrap liberalism in libertarian bacon and get Romney supporters to vote for it. I personally think you're going after the wrong people, you should be appealing to Obama voters.
 
It may well be a "keynote" for this year's Libertarian Party, I haven't kept up. I'm just pointing out, these are liberal suppositions and liberal agenda items, they have nothing to do with libertarianism.

Your definitions are based on nothing more than knee jerk reactionary bullshit. Libertarians do not change positions simply because Democrats or Republicans may agree with us.

No, based on your continued belief that government's role is to fight for liberal "causes" and not stay out of our lives.

Again, knee jerk reactionary bullshit.

I don't think anyone "redefined" anything. The government's #1 fundamental role is to protect the citizens from those who want to do us harm. Most true libertarians agree with this, it is a LIBERAL view that the "rights" of our enemies should be protected by Big Brother.

The proper role of a just government is to protect the rights of individuals not just some increasingly small collective that you call citizens. Of course, the government is going to give some urgency to it's own citizens. But part of the trick of racists assholes like you is to increasingly exclude certain members of the community from the definition of citizen. Enfranchisement, after all, was a liberal cause.

I don't want government involved in marriage, I have stated this many times. I also don't want government redefining what marriage means and calling something marriage that isn't marriage, and forcing the people to accept that. Again, this is a liberal "cause" and has nothing to do with a libertarian philosophy. You are FINE with Big Government, as long as they are advocating liberal causes.

Bullshit. I have come to realize that lying sacks of shit like you, misuse this argument. The government will always be involved in marriage just as it is involved in any contractual agreement. But its involvement should not be any greater than that.

No one is forcing you to accept anything.

I'm the least delusional one in this particular conversation. You seem to think that Liberalism can masquerade as Libertarianism, and no one will notice. But I notice, and you call me "delusional" for it. Government interference is the same whether it's supporting a liberal "cause" or conservative ones. That's the one point you need to grasp here, to help you with your confusion. What you are espousing is a very LIBERAL philosophy, not a Libertarian one.

You spend so much time in spin mode and lying I think you are nuts and not really aware of what the truth is anymore.

Libertarians don't seperate issues based on your knee jerk partisan bullshit. It's not about the government supporting a "liberal" cause or a "conservative" one. It's about individual rights vs the rights of the collective or state. You are firmly on the side of collectivism and the power of the state. You are not a libertarian at all. You are a racist piece of shit that is afraid to admit what you truly are.
 
Yes, there are quite a few here who are clueless about libertarianism, but they are desperately trying to wrap liberalism in libertarian bacon and get Romney supporters to vote for it. I personally think you're going after the wrong people, you should be appealing to Obama voters.

Fuck you, fat sack of shit! You are clueless and hardly the person fit to define libertarianism.

You worship George Bush, stand up for government programs like Social Security, Medicare and any form of government that benegits you. You support the drug war, government preferences for various religious groups and aggressive use of military force.

You ARE NOT a Libertarian. Your whole interest here is in attacking libertarianism and attracting more votes for the GOP, as if they are owed to you. Your party and candidate has not earned the support of limited government advocates and until you do no libertarian should support your party.
 
Is Ayn Rand a Libertarian?

What about Barry Goldwater? Libertarian?

Don't pretend to claim Rand. You just trashed her a few weeks ago. You have integrity and will misappropriate any idea you can for your own use.

Ayn Rand would blast the shit out of Mitt Romney. There is no way she would support him. She refused to support Ronald Reagan.
 
If anyone is wondering why Obama is winning while losing among "independents," this thread is for you. There are lots of people that used to be called Republicans that now claim not to be Republicans. But these people are going to vote for Romney because they're still really Republicans.
 
Your definitions are based on nothing more than knee jerk reactionary bullshit. Libertarians do not change positions simply because Democrats or Republicans may agree with us.

But apparently you do, because you are now claiming Libertarians stand up for Liberal causes and fight for Liberal agenda items and adopt Liberal talking points about those agenda items. You've abandoned your principles about keeping government out of our lives, in favor of government telling us what is and isn't morally acceptable and what we can and can't do, and who can and can't do it. Those are Liberal memes, and have nothing to do with Libertarianism, or at least not the Libertarianism I am familiar with through extensive reading of Libertarians most prominent in 20th Century American politics.

Again, knee jerk reactionary bullshit.

AGAIN... an ad hom that proves I nailed your ass. I'm getting good at this!

The proper role of a just government is to protect the rights of individuals not just some increasingly small collective that you call citizens. Of course, the government is going to give some urgency to it's own citizens. But part of the trick of racists assholes like you is to increasingly exclude certain members of the community from the definition of citizen. Enfranchisement, after all, was a liberal cause.

Again, you are endorsing a Liberal Statist philosophy here. You have no problem with massive Federal government as long as it is devoted to fighting Liberal battles and promoting those values. I'm not a racist and haven't excluded anyone from anything, I just don't feel it is the federal government's right to tell me what I can and can't do or what is or isn't morally acceptable.

Bullshit. I have come to realize that lying sacks of shit like you, misuse this argument. The government will always be involved in marriage just as it is involved in any contractual agreement. But its involvement should not be any greater than that.

Right, but if it's involvement is not greater than what you stated, how can it "redefine" what marriage means and dictate that? Again, you are an activist fanatical LIBERAL, not a Libertarian. You don't believe in individual personal liberty, you believe in forcing a LIBERAL ideology upon the rest of society against its will, and making them live by LIBERAL standards. That's simply NOT Libertarian in any way.

No one is forcing you to accept anything.

Yes, you are trying to. And insidiously hiding behind "Libertarianism" to do so!

You spend so much time in spin mode and lying I think you are nuts and not really aware of what the truth is anymore.

Haven't spun one single thing in this entire thread. I just keep clocking your ass, and you keep hurling ad homs to prove it.

Libertarians don't seperate issues based on your knee jerk partisan bullshit. It's not about the government supporting a "liberal" cause or a "conservative" one. It's about individual rights vs the rights of the collective or state. You are firmly on the side of collectivism and the power of the state. You are not a libertarian at all. You are a racist piece of shit that is afraid to admit what you truly are.

Oh I know Libertarians don't separate issues based on knee jerk partisan bullshit, Liberals do... that's why I say you are a LIBERAL!

Your position has nothing to do with individual liberty and freedom, and everything to do with manipulating the language and trying to fool people into accepting radical Liberal government, instituting radical Liberal ideology, under the premise it is something other than radical fanatical Liberalism.

I'm on the side of individual freedom and liberty, and greatly reduced federal interference in our lives. I am not an anarchist, I believe society has to establish laws and rules to function in a civilized manner, and I think a part of individual liberty is our ability to vote and implement our own rules and laws at the state or community level, and the federal government needs to stay the hell out of it and allow that freedom. I don't favor 9 judges in black robes, enacting laws from the bench, that is not Libertarian by any stretch of the imagination, in my opinion. I don't care that it's supposedly done in the name of liberty, it's built on false assumptions and liberal propaganda, and it's just as fucking wrong as endorsing a federal government to impose right-wing religious zealotry on the people.

AGAIN... YOU are a LIBERAL, not a Libertarian! You continue to prove this for everyone to see, in every post you're making.
 
No, the polar opposite of social conservatism is social liberalism. It has nothing to do with principles of math, libertarianism is a philosophy.

They both want big gov't. There's never enough gov't for the social con, and the liberal con.
 
Republicans that aren't Jesus freaks? Really? You think that defines Libertarianism?

Can you show us any platform from any year of the Republican party, where "Jesus" was mentioned?

Dear Ditzie... as I stated, it was a better description of Libertarian thought than all the bullshit you have been shoveling. You pretend to understand Libertarians, but like the nuts on the left, you nuts on the right have a very warped view of Libertarians.
 
Dear Ditzie... as I stated, it was a better description of Libertarian thought than all the bullshit you have been shoveling. You pretend to understand Libertarians, but like the nuts on the left, you nuts on the right have a very warped view of Libertarians.

Well explain how my view is warped then, and stop calling me cute little names?

I said that Libertarians believe in very small limited government, and the main fundamental of government is to provide a national defense. Is that not true? Am I wrong about that? It pretty much follows what Barry Goldwater said and Ayn Rand, and they are noted 20th Century Libertarians. Now maybe you can argue that Libertarianism has many factions, and they vary greatly? I don't know, I am not here to make your arguments for you, that's up to you. But bowing up and calling me names is not going to win this debate for you. Claiming my views are warped without any substantive backing, is also not going to win the debate. If this were a shouting contest, or a yammering competition, you might win that, but not an intelligent debate.
 
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