Condi Rice for VP?

blackascoal said:
Oh really?

Back that up.

Some of the tourists claim the opposite.

You think that Canadians who come here for treatment don't pay more than Americans?
Click to expand...

Actually if you pay directly often you get treatment for less than the insurance company pays. While you may think you get it for less, it is only because you have been subsidized by a big corporation. You should also include the fact that we make up the loss from the Medicaid patients in what we wind up paying. I'm sure they pay "more" than what I pay, but it is likely the hospital makes more from me than they...

Also, I would not find it necessary at this point to travel for care.

Back what up? That they travel to get care? You pointed that out yourself. If it was as perfect as you pretend it is it wouldn't be necessary at all. Ignoring the pitfalls of what you propound only ensures that everybody gets crap, except the people willing and able to pay.
 
have you ever noticed that the Democrats seldom refer to their black congressmen by name?.....just the "Black Caucus" did this and the "Black Caucus" says that.....
 
blackascoal said:
Cuba has been under an embargo for 12 US presidents .. more than 40 years. Yet, they have so many doctors that they export them. They have free access to healthcare and education for all their citizens .. AND, they have one of the best healthcare systems in the world. They continue to make new discoveries and solutions to health issues that are being used all over the world.
Click to expand...

Then this article from 2007 is incorrect?

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm

SEPARATE AND UNEQUAL

To be sure, there is excellent health care on Cuba — just not for ordinary Cubans. Dr. Jaime Suchlicki of the University of Miami’s Institute for Cuban and Cuban-American Studies explains that there is not just one system, or even two: There are three. The first is for foreigners who come to Cuba specifically for medical care. This is known as “medical tourism.” The tourists pay in hard currency, which provides oxygen to the regime. And the facilities in which they are treated are First World: clean, well supplied, state-of-the-art.

The foreigners-only facilities do a big business in what you might call vanity treatments: Botox, liposuction, and breast implants. Remember, too, that there are many separate, or segregated, facilities on Cuba. People speak of “tourism apartheid.” For example, there are separate hotels, separate beaches, separate restaurants — separate everything. As you can well imagine, this causes widespread resentment in the general population.

The second health-care system is for Cuban elites — the Party, the military, official artists and writers, and so on. In the Soviet Union, these people were called the “nomenklatura.” And their system, like the one for medical tourists, is top-notch.

Then there is the real Cuban system, the one that ordinary people must use — and it is wretched. Testimony and documentation on the subject are vast. Hospitals and clinics are crumbling. Conditions are so unsanitary, patients may be better off at home, whatever home is. If they do have to go to the hospital, they must bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce. In Sicko, even sophisticated medications are plentiful and cheap. In the real Cuba, finding an aspirin can be a chore. And an antibiotic will fetch a fortune on the black market.

A nurse spoke to Isabel Vincent of Canada’s National Post. “We have nothing,” said the nurse. “I haven’t seen aspirin in a Cuban store here for more than a year. If you have any pills in your purse, I’ll take them. Even if they have passed their expiry date.”

The equipment that doctors have to work with is either antiquated or nonexistent. Doctors have been known to reuse latex gloves — there is no choice. When they travel to the island, on errands of mercy, American doctors make sure to take as much equipment and as many supplies as they can carry. One told the Associated Press, “The [Cuban] doctors are pretty well trained, but they have nothing to work with. It’s like operating with knives and spoons.”

And doctors are not necessarily privileged citizens in Cuba. A doctor in exile told the Miami Herald that, in 2003, he earned what most doctors did: 575 pesos a month, or about 25 dollars. He had to sell pork out of his home to get by. And the chief of medical services for the whole of the Cuban military had to rent out his car as a taxi on weekends. “Everyone tries to survive,” he explained. (Of course, you can call a Cuban with a car privileged, whatever he does with it.)

So deplorable is the state of health care in Cuba that old-fashioned diseases are back with a vengeance. These include tuberculosis, leprosy, and typhoid fever. And dengue, another fever, is a particular menace. Indeed, an exiled doctor named Dessy Mendoza Rivero — a former political prisoner and a spectacularly brave man — wrote a book called ¡Dengue! La Epidemia Secreta de Fidel Castro.

Or this one from 2010?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/29/105902/wikileaks-cables-highlight-cubas.html

In one Cuban hospital, patients had to bring their own light bulbs. In another, the staff used "a primitive manual vacuum" on a woman who had miscarried. In others, Cuban patients pay bribes to obtain better treatment.

Or this one, from this year?

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/294796/andrea-mitchell-s-myth-cuban-health-care-patrick-brennan

To be sure, Cuba does put an extraordinary emphasis on health care, especially in medical education. But this has as much to do with the Castro regime’s personal interests as it does humanitarian concern. Cubans who demonstrate scientific talent are tracked into training to become doctors as early as elementary school, which means the island does train an amazing number of doctors relative to its size and wealth. But Cubans report that there aren’t nearly enough doctors and nurses on the island to meet the demand for care. Where are they? Scattered across the world, especially in revolutionary-friendly countries, earning Castro billions of dollars in desperately needed foreign exchange every year. (I spent a summer getting to know two of them in rural Namibia, where they were working at a U.S.-funded clinic with two Zimbabwean doctors — notably, the Cubans admitted the Zimbabweans were actually the better-trained half of this axis of humanitarianism.)

Finally, Reed’s suggestion that Cuba’s system is intended to provide free universal care is, if it were ever true, no longer the case. Massive inequalities and cases of rent-seeking now exist. Tourists paying in hard currency and top Communist party officials can receive world-class care, while the vast majority of Cubans now find it necessary to bribe doctors, who receive incredibly low salaries, in order to receive necessary and supposedly “free” care.

I guess this is just anti-Cuban propoganda. :palm:
 
PostmodernProphet said:
have you ever noticed that the Democrats seldom refer to their black congressmen by name?.....just the "Black Caucus" did this and the "Black Caucus" says that.....
Click to expand...

That is so false it's hilarious. You really do have problems with race, don't you, dumbo? Seek help. It will be your only salvation
 
Does anyone else find it ironic, that in a thread about a potential black female VP, posted by a conservative, with every conservative commenting on what a good choice she'd make.... we are being criticized as racists for never putting a black person on the ticket? Too me, that is just too stunning for words.
 
Damocles said:
Actually if you pay directly often you get treatment for less than the insurance company pays. While you may think you get it for less, it is only because you have been subsidized by a big corporation. You should also include the fact that we make up the loss from the Medicaid patients in what we wind up paying. I'm sure they pay "more" than what I pay, but it is likely the hospital makes more from me than they...

Also, I would not find it necessary at this point to travel for care.

Back what up? That they travel to get care? You pointed that out yourself. If it was as perfect as you pretend it is it wouldn't be necessary at all. Ignoring the pitfalls of what you propound only ensures that everybody gets crap, except the people willing and able to pay.
Click to expand...

I know people who save up there doctor trips to go when they are in Cannada. My mother tore ligaments in her leg while hiking in Cannada, we went in for emergency treatment, it was the fastest most efficent system... and she paid absolutly 0!
 
Damocles said:
Actually if you pay directly often you get treatment for less than the insurance company pays. While you may think you get it for less, it is only because you have been subsidized by a big corporation. You should also include the fact that we make up the loss from the Medicaid patients in what we wind up paying. I'm sure they pay "more" than what I pay, but it is likely the hospital makes more from me than they...

Also, I would not find it necessary at this point to travel for care.

Back what up? That they travel to get care? You pointed that out yourself. If it was as perfect as you pretend it is it wouldn't be necessary at all. Ignoring the pitfalls of what you propound only ensures that everybody gets crap, except the people willing and able to pay.
Click to expand...

Back up your claim that Cuban citizens get lesser healthcare because they don't pay for it.

Cuba is strong on preventative medicine .. much stronger than we are in the US. There is a clinic in every neighborhood, a doctor on every corner.

Is it a perfect system? Nothing is perfect.

Is it a far better system than pre-Castro, pre-socialism, post-American and Mafia control? Absolutely it is without question.

American students study there who would never be able to afford the costs of medical school in the US .. and their "cost" to study there? They must commit to practice in an under-served and depressed area IN THE UNITED STATES for a period of time.

What do you do when people and countries you don't like do good things?

Cuba provides free health care without the worry
http://worldfocus.org/blog/2009/06/26/cuba-provides-free-health-care-without-the-worry/6016/
 
blackascoal said:
Back up your claim that Cuban citizens get lesser healthcare because they don't pay for it.

Cuba is strong on preventative medicine .. much stronger than we are in the US. There is a clinic in every neighborhood, a doctor on every corner.

Is it a perfect system? Nothing is perfect.

Is it a far better system than pre-Castro, pre-socialism, post-American and Mafia control? Absolutely it is without question.

American students study there who would never be able to afford the costs of medical school in the US .. and their "cost" to study there? They must commit to practice in an under-served and depressed area IN THE UNITED STATES for a period of time.

What do you do when people and countries you don't like do good things?

Cuba provides free health care without the worry
http://worldfocus.org/blog/2009/06/26/cuba-provides-free-health-care-without-the-worry/6016/
Click to expand...

Decent preventative medicine would save this country millions (if not billions) of dollars.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Then this article from 2007 is incorrect?

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm

SEPARATE AND UNEQUAL

To be sure, there is excellent health care on Cuba — just not for ordinary Cubans. Dr. Jaime Suchlicki of the University of Miami’s Institute for Cuban and Cuban-American Studies explains that there is not just one system, or even two: There are three. The first is for foreigners who come to Cuba specifically for medical care. This is known as “medical tourism.” The tourists pay in hard currency, which provides oxygen to the regime. And the facilities in which they are treated are First World: clean, well supplied, state-of-the-art.

The foreigners-only facilities do a big business in what you might call vanity treatments: Botox, liposuction, and breast implants. Remember, too, that there are many separate, or segregated, facilities on Cuba. People speak of “tourism apartheid.” For example, there are separate hotels, separate beaches, separate restaurants — separate everything. As you can well imagine, this causes widespread resentment in the general population.

The second health-care system is for Cuban elites — the Party, the military, official artists and writers, and so on. In the Soviet Union, these people were called the “nomenklatura.” And their system, like the one for medical tourists, is top-notch.

Then there is the real Cuban system, the one that ordinary people must use — and it is wretched. Testimony and documentation on the subject are vast. Hospitals and clinics are crumbling. Conditions are so unsanitary, patients may be better off at home, whatever home is. If they do have to go to the hospital, they must bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce. In Sicko, even sophisticated medications are plentiful and cheap. In the real Cuba, finding an aspirin can be a chore. And an antibiotic will fetch a fortune on the black market.

A nurse spoke to Isabel Vincent of Canada’s National Post. “We have nothing,” said the nurse. “I haven’t seen aspirin in a Cuban store here for more than a year. If you have any pills in your purse, I’ll take them. Even if they have passed their expiry date.”

The equipment that doctors have to work with is either antiquated or nonexistent. Doctors have been known to reuse latex gloves — there is no choice. When they travel to the island, on errands of mercy, American doctors make sure to take as much equipment and as many supplies as they can carry. One told the Associated Press, “The [Cuban] doctors are pretty well trained, but they have nothing to work with. It’s like operating with knives and spoons.”

And doctors are not necessarily privileged citizens in Cuba. A doctor in exile told the Miami Herald that, in 2003, he earned what most doctors did: 575 pesos a month, or about 25 dollars. He had to sell pork out of his home to get by. And the chief of medical services for the whole of the Cuban military had to rent out his car as a taxi on weekends. “Everyone tries to survive,” he explained. (Of course, you can call a Cuban with a car privileged, whatever he does with it.)

So deplorable is the state of health care in Cuba that old-fashioned diseases are back with a vengeance. These include tuberculosis, leprosy, and typhoid fever. And dengue, another fever, is a particular menace. Indeed, an exiled doctor named Dessy Mendoza Rivero — a former political prisoner and a spectacularly brave man — wrote a book called ¡Dengue! La Epidemia Secreta de Fidel Castro.

Or this one from 2010?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/29/105902/wikileaks-cables-highlight-cubas.html

In one Cuban hospital, patients had to bring their own light bulbs. In another, the staff used "a primitive manual vacuum" on a woman who had miscarried. In others, Cuban patients pay bribes to obtain better treatment.

Or this one, from this year?

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/294796/andrea-mitchell-s-myth-cuban-health-care-patrick-brennan

To be sure, Cuba does put an extraordinary emphasis on health care, especially in medical education. But this has as much to do with the Castro regime’s personal interests as it does humanitarian concern. Cubans who demonstrate scientific talent are tracked into training to become doctors as early as elementary school, which means the island does train an amazing number of doctors relative to its size and wealth. But Cubans report that there aren’t nearly enough doctors and nurses on the island to meet the demand for care. Where are they? Scattered across the world, especially in revolutionary-friendly countries, earning Castro billions of dollars in desperately needed foreign exchange every year. (I spent a summer getting to know two of them in rural Namibia, where they were working at a U.S.-funded clinic with two Zimbabwean doctors — notably, the Cubans admitted the Zimbabweans were actually the better-trained half of this axis of humanitarianism.)

Finally, Reed’s suggestion that Cuba’s system is intended to provide free universal care is, if it were ever true, no longer the case. Massive inequalities and cases of rent-seeking now exist. Tourists paying in hard currency and top Communist party officials can receive world-class care, while the vast majority of Cubans now find it necessary to bribe doctors, who receive incredibly low salaries, in order to receive necessary and supposedly “free” care.

I guess this is just anti-Cuban propoganda. :palm:
Click to expand...

Is this article from THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZTION from 2012 incorrect?

WHO praises Cuba's health care system

HAVANA, March 27 (Xinhua) -- Cuba's health care system has a lot to teach the world, the deputy head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said Tuesday during a visit to the Caribbean island nation.

WHO Deputy Director General Dr. Anarfi Asamoa-Baah praised Cuba's health care standards and held the island's universal health care system as a model for other countries to emulate.

Asamoa-Baah is part of a visiting delegation of health experts, including WHO Director General Dr. Margaret Chan, Regional Director for Africa Dr. Luis Sambo, and Shin Young-Soo, regional director for the Western Pacific, who were to attend the first-ever meeting of the agency's regional directors held in Havana.

During a tour Monday of scientific institutions in Cuba, the WHO deputy director said he was impressed by the nation's "well integrated" health care system at all levels.

Asamoa-Baah praised the fact that all Cubans have free access to high-quality, high-tech health services and applauded the country's ongoing campaigns to eradicate communicable diseases.

He also praised the work of Cuban health care workers in more than 32 countries and the medical training offered by Cuban universities to thousands of students from around the world.

The WHO experts expressed particular interest in Cuba's biotech industry, which has developed vaccines to fight cancer and other diseases, and Cuban medical products are marketed in over 40 countries.

The WHO delegation is scheduled to meet Thursday with Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez and tour the Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology in Havana.

On Friday, the group will attend the closing ceremony of the Congress of Geriatrics and Gerontology.

Advanced universal health care and education in Cuba are two of the main achievements of the Socialist Revolution launched in 1959 by former Cuban leader Fidel Castro.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/health/2012-03/28/c_131493136.htm

Pardon me but I choose the opinions of the WHO rather than the National Review.

Additionally, yes and absolutely yes there are mountains of US propaganda about the failures of everything Cuba. Surely you aren't naive enough not to recignize that. However, if you choose we can have a debate right now on the Cuba of Batista and US/mafia control.. and the Cuba of Castro. Anytime you're ready, jump right in.
 
Dixie said:
Does anyone else find it ironic, that in a thread about a potential black female VP, posted by a conservative, with every conservative commenting on what a good choice she'd make.... we are being criticized as racists for never putting a black person on the ticket? Too me, that is just too stunning for words.
Click to expand...

Does history count or not?

Three questions ..

1. How many blacks has the Republican Party ever had at the top of their ticket?

2. What year is this?

3. What is it that you're confused about?
 
blackascoal said:
Does history count or not?

Three questions ..

1. How many blacks has the Republican Party ever had at the top of their ticket?

2. What year is this?

3. What is it that you're confused about?
Click to expand...

Well, let me ask YOU...

1. How many true full-blooded blacks has the Democrat Party ever had at the top of THEIR ticket?

2. What year is this?

3. What political party is supposedly committed to the issues of blacks?


The only thing that confuses me, is your hypocrisy, and why black people still support Democrats. I could also ask how many black Senators and Cabinet members the Democrats have had, but the point would be redundant.
 
Dixie said:
Well, let me ask YOU...

1. How many true full-blooded blacks has the Democrat Party ever had at the top of THEIR ticket?

2. What year is this?

3. What political party is supposedly committed to the issues of blacks?


The only thing that confuses me, is your hypocrisy, and why black people still support Democrats. I could also ask how many black Senators and Cabinet members the Democrats have had, but the point would be redundant.
Click to expand...

What does the GOP offer that would persuade blacks to vote GOP rather than Dem?
 
Bijou said:
What does the GOP offer that would persuade blacks to vote GOP rather than Dem?
Click to expand...

what does the DNC offer them....I'm curious what you believe the issues are that induce blacks to vote Democrat....

one program that the Republicans pushed that was very popular among blacks in the District of Columbia was the voucher program......Obama dismantled that the first month he was in office.....
 
Dixie said:
Well, let me ask YOU...

1. How many true full-blooded blacks has the Democrat Party ever had at the top of THEIR ticket?

2. What year is this?

3. What political party is supposedly committed to the issues of blacks?


The only thing that confuses me, is your hypocrisy, and why black people still support Democrats. I could also ask how many black Senators and Cabinet members the Democrats have had, but the point would be redundant.
Click to expand...

<draws sword> :0)

I'll gladly answer your questions even though you found it intimidating to answer mine.

1. Obama is a full-blooded black man ...but I do indeed find it sooo amusing listening to you now wanting to claim half a black man.

Seriously .. I had to stop typing for about 4 minutes to enjoy that shit. :0) That was funny.

2. This is 2012 .. and there were more black democrats in Congress in 1970 than the republicans have had collectively since 1970. Have you got some statistic or data regarding blacks and republicans that support your disbelief of the obvious? Anything?

3. You've answered your own befuddlement. That answer is democrats .. so I ask again .. why are you confused?

Additionally .. Are you not aware that I am not a democrat? Are you surpried to know that I don't support Obama/

This isn't about me, ain't (eb) about you. It's about the truth .. and if you can't handle the truth .. doesn't fit in the packaged meme .. not my problem brother.

<shields sword> :0)
 
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