Common sense question regarding gun control

kaz said:
Is it OK to require people to go through government training to have freedom of speech?
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Strawman. He didn't say that. He said "Background Checks". But yes...we do have training for freedom of speech. It's called "education" and in all States it is compulsory but we all know that compulsory education is just another socialist liberal over reach. [/sarcasm]
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Strawman. He didn't say that. He said "Background Checks". But yes...we do have training for freedom of speech. It's called "education" and in all States it is compulsory but we all know that compulsory education is just another socialist liberal over reach. [/sarcasm]
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So I am not allowed to speak freely without a diploma?
 
Damocles said:
Billy has it right. The agent of the state exercises government power, not their rights.

The people have and exercise a right, the state does not, it is a limited power exercised as an agent of the state.
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You need to go back and read the Constitution. What Billy said is non-sense. The Government has specific rights enumerated by the U.S. Constitution. One of the big arguments during the Constitutional convention is that if the government was to have enumerated rights than Citizens should also have enumerated rights protected by the U.S. Constitution and thus the Bill of Rights was proposed and adopted to protect the rights of Citizens.

The Government has specific rights enumerated in Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. They are;

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
 
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Oh and those rights of enumerated powers not provided to the Federal Government by the U.S. Constitution belong to the States and those State Governments list their rights of enumerated powers via their State Constitutions.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You need to go back and read the Constitution. What Billy said is non-sense. The Government has specific rights enumerated by the U.S. Constitution. One of the big arguments during the Constitutional convention is that if the government was to have enumerated rights than Citizens should also have enumerated rights protected by the U.S. Constitution and thus the Bill of Rights was proposed and adopted to protect the rights of Citizens.

The Government has specific rights enumerated in Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. They are;

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
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Wrong. The Constitution does not give the government rights. Are you battling for retard of the month?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You need to go back and read the Constitution. What Billy said is non-sense. The Government has specific rights enumerated by the U.S. Constitution. One of the big arguments during the Constitutional convention is that if the government was to have enumerated rights than Citizens should also have enumerated rights protected by the U.S. Constitution and thus the Bill of Rights was proposed and adopted to protect the rights of Citizens.

The Government has specific rights enumerated in Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. They are;

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
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Those are POWERS Mott you bumbling idiots. Power is the antithesis of rights, it comes at their expense. States do not have rights, and subsequenly neither do agents acting on behalf of the state.
 
Jarod said:
While it has not been litigated, I suspect the court would find that driving is a right.
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it has been litigated. I've posted in a few different threads the numerous court cases across the country that have found driving on public roadways to be a right. the problem is that there have lately been some states that have turned that around and decided that it's not a right any longer.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You need to go back and read the Constitution. What Billy said is non-sense. The Government has specific rights enumerated by the U.S. Constitution. One of the big arguments during the Constitutional convention is that if the government was to have enumerated rights than Citizens should also have enumerated rights protected by the U.S. Constitution and thus the Bill of Rights was proposed and adopted to protect the rights of Citizens.
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what YOU are saying is nonsense. the constitution does not confer rights to the government, it prescribes powers only.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You need to go back and read the Constitution. What Billy said is non-sense. The Government has specific rights enumerated by the U.S. Constitution. One of the big arguments during the Constitutional convention is that if the government was to have enumerated rights than Citizens should also have enumerated rights protected by the U.S. Constitution and thus the Bill of Rights was proposed and adopted to protect the rights of Citizens.

The Government has specific rights enumerated in Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. They are;

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
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We need to nominate this one. It may win. The "Congress shall have the POWER..." Geebus, Mott.
 
Damocles said:
Mott can't understand, when the constitution says "powers" he thinks it means "rights"...
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It's not entirely his fault, though. Generations of southern apologists have been arguing that states have rights, to the point that everyone has pretty much got it in their heads that feds, states, counties, municipalities, and citizens all have differing and often conflicting rights.
 
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THE ONLY ANSWER?​
MORE GUNS!​
 
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