Comments!!

[USFREEDOM911]

These Pirates are not demanding cleanup crews, they demand cash. They are not protesting dirty ocean water, as much as you want them to.

One of the latest reports now have his APOLOGIST LAWYER making excuses for him and they're trying to show how poor his family is.
Now that he doesn't have a gun or anyone to threaten, they're trying to paint him as a confused youth with a possible mental problem.

I say we ransom him back to Somalia, say for 10 Million.

But then I think it's time to start blowing Pirate ships out of the water.

 

[DamnYankee]

Somalis lived in shit before anyone started fishing in their waters.

Good point. Think of the trade potential that they are losing. Just bars and hookers alone.

 

[blackascoal]

These Pirates are not demanding cleanup crews, they demand cash. They are not protesting dirty ocean water, as much as you want them to.

I'm sure glad you're here to speak for the Somali people.

Somali Pirates Versus European Toxic-waste Dumpers

Not all the Somali "pirates" are gangsters: some are locals who've watched their loved ones sicken and die after European toxic waste was dropped on their shores and decided to do something about it.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.
Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Mr Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by overexploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m-worth of tuna, shrimp, and lobster are being stolen every year by illegal trawlers. The local fishermen are now starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia - and ordinary Somalis agree. The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence".

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But in a telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali: "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas."
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/15/somali-pirates-versu.html

Not that I expect you to give a fuck about Somali's or what they are going through watching their waters being infected with nuclear and other toxic wastes or the suffering this has brought to their children.

No my brother, I didn't post this because I think you give a fuck about them, I posted it to demostrate that, once again, you don't know what you're talking about.

This piracy is an act of desperation. Do you get that part?

I don't condone it, but there is another side of the story that is having devastating consequences for innocent people and children. Do you get that part?

 

[blackascoal]

Somalis lived in shit before anyone started fishing in their waters.

Good thinking Larry Summers.

Africans don't live long anway so lets dump all the world's shit on them.

Real humanitarian.

 

[Damocles]

I'm sure glad you're here to speak for the Somali people.

Somali Pirates Versus European Toxic-waste Dumpers

Not all the Somali "pirates" are gangsters: some are locals who've watched their loved ones sicken and die after European toxic waste was dropped on their shores and decided to do something about it.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.
Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Mr Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by overexploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m-worth of tuna, shrimp, and lobster are being stolen every year by illegal trawlers. The local fishermen are now starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia - and ordinary Somalis agree. The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence".

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But in a telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali: "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas."
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/15/somali-pirates-versu.html

Not that I expect you to give a fuck about Somali's or what they are going through watching their waters being infected with nuclear and other toxic wastes or the suffering this has brought to their children.

No my brother, I didn't post this because I think you give a fuck about them, I posted it to demostrate that, once again, you don't know what you're talking about.

This piracy is an act of desperation. Do you get that part?

I don't condone it, but there is another side of the story that is having devastating consequences for innocent people and children. Do you get that part?

One more time. These pirates did not demand cleaning crews and were not looking for them. They were grocery shopping.

You have sort of weird malfunction of the reading comprehension portion of your brain when you start "speaking" to me. The evidence and their action do not support the belief that these people are out to save the planet, they are seeking a payday.

When they take hostages and seek cash in return they are not fighting for cleaner waters, they are fighting for cash.

This doesn't mean that some of the Somalians might not think it is okay to let them keep taking boats and hostages because it is "self-defense" or that the pirates might not exploit that idea among them so that they will be given support rather than animosity from the locals. However the reality is none of them are demanding that dumping stop, they are demanding cash. Not once have the demands included reduced dumping even as a side note. This isn't what they are fighting for, based on the direct evidence of their demands.

You may pretend that means that I don't care about Somalis if you please, although there is no evidence of that in posting the stark reality of the situation. It isn't any more real than the idea that the equivalent of carjackers on the waves that are demanding cash (not cleaner waters) for hostage exchanges are really Earth Warriors of the utmost perfection in motive. I'd be far more likely to support the idea if even once their demands had included anything at all about the reduction of pollution rather than a big hefty payday.

Do I think we should reduce dumping in the ocean? You bet I do. Do I think that these guys care one iota about anything except their next payday? Not much. I'm sure they care about family and friends, but I don't think they are celebrating Earth Day today, or crying one tear over Mother Earth.

I support doing something to reduce the desperation of the nation as a whole, but that doesn't mean I have to imagine motivation in the pirates that is non existent in evidence by their action.

 

[Socrtease]

I'm sure glad you're here to speak for the Somali people.

Somali Pirates Versus European Toxic-waste Dumpers

Not all the Somali "pirates" are gangsters: some are locals who've watched their loved ones sicken and die after European toxic waste was dropped on their shores and decided to do something about it.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.
Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Mr Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by overexploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m-worth of tuna, shrimp, and lobster are being stolen every year by illegal trawlers. The local fishermen are now starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia - and ordinary Somalis agree. The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence".

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But in a telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali: "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas."
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/15/somali-pirates-versu.html

Not that I expect you to give a fuck about Somali's or what they are going through watching their waters being infected with nuclear and other toxic wastes or the suffering this has brought to their children.

No my brother, I didn't post this because I think you give a fuck about them, I posted it to demostrate that, once again, you don't know what you're talking about.

This piracy is an act of desperation. Do you get that part?

I don't condone it, but there is another side of the story that is having devastating consequences for innocent people and children. Do you get that part?

Now I don't have a link, but my bet is if you could find some sort of poll from 1940 it would show that 70% or more of Germans supported the removal of Jews so that Germans could be safer and have more room to live. I also bet, that if polls were done in the last part of the 19th century and the first 2/3 of the 20th century, you would find that 70% or more of white southerners supported Jim Crow laws and racial discrimination as a way of protecting traditional southern values. Attempting to point to consensus among a people that are benefiting from criminal behavior, to show that the behavior ain't all that bad, is at best intellectually dishonest,

 

[blackascoal]

The second photo is one that will be forever burned on my brain, I remember seeing that picture when I was 6 years old. I remember asking my dad about that little girl (her name is Phan Thị Kim Phúc) and why she was running in the road naked. She spent 14 months in the hospital and had 17 surgeries. By the by, she was napalmed NOT by Americans but by the South Vietnamese air force.

... using napalm they got from us.

I could have posted pictures of the deformed bodies of Iranians .. deformed by chemical weapons Saddam got from us.

Or I could have posted pictures of the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The point remains the same in all cases.

By the way brother, that picture has remained stuck in the minds of many.

 

[blackascoal]

Now I don't have a link, but my bet is if you could find some sort of poll from 1940 it would show that 70% or more of Germans supported the removal of Jews so that Germans could be safer and have more room to live. I also bet, that if polls were done in the last part of the 19th century and the first 2/3 of the 20th century, you would find that 70% or more of white southerners supported Jim Crow laws and racial discrimination as a way of protecting traditional southern values. Attempting to point to consensus among a people that are benefiting from criminal behavior, to show that the behavior ain't all that bad, is at best intellectually dishonest,

The Boston Tea Party was an illegal event.

I posted that article to demonstrate there is more to this issue than just a bunsh of "pirates" attacking innocent white people.

I don't expect that no matter how devastating the consequences of dumping of nuclear wastes are to the Somali people, there will only be focus on "criminal behavior" .. and where I come from, that is intellectually dishonest at best.

 

[Socrtease]

So there are two crimes going on in Somalia. The piracy and the illegal dumping. Prosecute them all. Don't excuse one because of the other.

 

[blackascoal]

One more time. These pirates did not demand cleaning crews and were not looking for them. They were grocery shopping.

You have sort of weird malfunction of the reading comprehension portion of your brain when you start "speaking" to me. The evidence and their action do not support the belief that these people are out to save the planet, they are seeking a payday.

When they take hostages and seek cash in return they are not fighting for cleaner waters, they are fighting for cash.

This doesn't mean that some of the Somalians might not think it is okay to let them keep taking boats and hostages because it is "self-defense" or that the pirates might not exploit that idea among them so that they will be given support rather than animosity from the locals. However the reality is none of them are demanding that dumping stop, they are demanding cash. Not once have the demands included reduced dumping even as a side note. This isn't what they are fighting for, based on the direct evidence of their demands.

You may pretend that means that I don't care about Somalis if you please, although there is no evidence of that in posting the stark reality of the situation. It isn't any more real than the idea that the equivalent of carjackers on the waves that are demanding cash (not cleaner waters) for hostage exchanges are really Earth Warriors of the utmost perfection in motive.

I guess I just never realized this before but you're a fucking idiot.

The Somali's have never demanded clean-up crews oir action regarding the dumping of toxic wastes in their waters or the over-fishing by international vessles?

Is that your fucking argument?

I just want to know before I slap your dumb ass once again with truth.

 

[Damocles]

Good thinking Larry Summers.

Africans don't live long anway so lets dump all the world's shit on them.

Real humanitarian.

I don't think Grind has ever tried to say he was a humanitarian.

 

[blackascoal]

So there are two crimes going on in Somalia. The piracy and the illegal dumping. Prosecute them all. Don't excuse one because of the other.

Who is going to prosecute the dumpers?

That case isn't even being made in the MSM and even when it does get made it's met by people like you and Damo who don't think it should even be heard or will only view it from "criminal behavior."

Even when irrefutable evidence of the issues are presented, the Somalis don't have the power to do anything but act out of desperation.

You don't get it .. I get that.

 

[Damocles]

I guess I just never realized this before but you're a fucking idiot.

The Somali's have never demanded clean-up crews oir action regarding the dumping of toxic wastes in their waters or the over-fishing by international vessles?

Is that your fucking argument?

I just want to know before I slap your dumb ass once again with truth.

The pirates haven't demanded that, they expose their motivation by their action. Not once have I seen a demand from pirates that dumping end and then they'll release their hostages. They seek cash.

Why are you deliberately obtuse whenever you read a post of mine? Seriously it is annoying, you used to be a thoughtful poster who could frame a post without this kind of inanity.

Somalis are upset, this I believe, these pirates are simply people who take advantage of the situation.

These pirates are not Earth Warriors, they do not ask for nor want what you say, and that is based directly on what they do rather than what you presume about me, or because of some belief that they should let pirates continue because it may keep people away.

 

[Damocles]

Who is going to prosecute the dumpers?

That case isn't even being made in the MSM and even when it does get made it's met by people like you and Damo who don't think it should even be heard or will only view it from "criminal behavior."

Even when irrefutable evidence of the issues are presented, the Somalis don't have the power to do anything but act out of desperation.

You don't get it .. I get that.

Rubbish, I have never argued that it shouldn't be heard. You ascribe great beneficent motivation to pirates who demand cash, not cleanup and to me you ascribe nefarious motivations that don't exist.

I point out directly the simple fact that these pirates are not demanding clean waters, they are demanding cash.

I understand that a large portion of Somalis believe that, in the absence of a government solution, this is at least a modicum of defense against what is being done and is better in the short term than nothing. But that doesn't change that the pirates are not doing this for cleaner waters.

 

[blackascoal]

Rubbish, I have never argued that it shouldn't be heard. You ascribe great beneficent motivation to pirates who demand cash, not cleanup and to me you ascribe nefarious motivations that don't exist.

I point out directly the simple fact that these pirates are not demanding clean waters, they are demanding cash.

I understand that a large portion of Somalis believe that, in the absence of a government solution, this is at least a modicum of defense against what is being done and is better in the short term than nothing. But that doesn't change that the pirates are not doing this for cleaner waters.

Frankly I recognize that I'm talking to a bunch of people who don't give a damn.

The error is mine for even discussing this subject in mixed company.

 

[uscitizen]

Frankly I recognize that I'm talking to a bunch of people who don't give a damn.

The error is mine for even discussing this subject in mixed company.

The partisan divide BAC.
Individual thinking is discouraged.

 

[Damocles]

Frankly I recognize that I'm talking to a bunch of people who don't give a damn.

The error is mine for even discussing this subject in mixed company.

Again, there is nothing in my posts that suggest that I don't "give a damn" and repeating this nonsense just means that you just want me to be some sort of inhuman monster so it will make you feel better. IMO, it shows that you recognize what I am saying, you just don't want it to be true so ad hom inanity is all you have left. I know it is frustrating, but it is reality. The pirates are not demanding clean water because that is not what motivates them.

Again, I believe that desperate people will do what is necessary to survive and believe that the largest motivator for these pirates is desperation, and as I stated above I believe that we should do something to limit that amount of desperation as a long-term solution. One thing we can do is work on stopping each other from polluting their food supply.

However, that doesn't change that clean water is not what is motivating the pirates.

 

[uscitizen]

How can anyone be against clean water?

 

[Damocles]

The partisan divide BAC.
Individual thinking is discouraged.

Says somebody who has yet to contribute to the conversation in any meaningful way. Show us your awesome individual thinking rather than bumper sticker phrases.

 

[Damocles]

How can anyone be against clean water?

I don't know. You can tell by my posts that I am not. Nor am I somehow unable to feel for people who suffer because I can recognize what people demand.

I guess you should ask somebody who is against it.