cawacko
Well-known member
So you claim to be a Jew but when CNN writes about anti-semitism in Europe you first reaction is to attack America?
CNN poll reveals depth of anti-Semitism in Europe
- Thread starter cawacko
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So you claim to be a Jew but when CNN writes about anti-semitism in Europe you first reaction is to attack America?
cawacko
Well-known member
Because it's been that way for so long in Europe?
cancel2 2022
Canceled
He's a sectlret pork swallowing self loathing Jew.
I am amazed that anyone would be surprised, nor that it should be newsworthy that anti-Semitism is a problem in parts of Europe.
This is the continent that brought us Hitler's death camps, the collaborationists of the Vichy Republic, pogroms in Russia, and Nazi collaborationists throughout the continent. Outside of the Danes, there were relatively few European citizens who took active steps to help protect the Jews of the 1940s.
European nationalists, the European rightwing, and Euro-reactionaries have always provided fertile ground for anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, racism, and bigotry. We see that same association in the United States as well.
This is the continent that brought us Hitler's death camps, the collaborationists of the Vichy Republic, pogroms in Russia, and Nazi collaborationists throughout the continent. Outside of the Danes, there were relatively few European citizens who took active steps to help protect the Jews of the 1940s.
European nationalists, the European rightwing, and Euro-reactionaries have always provided fertile ground for anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, racism, and bigotry. We see that same association in the United States as well.
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To put some perspective on that:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-shows-americans-are-forgetting-about-holocaust-n865396
As you can see, where the number is 5% in Europe, it's 11% here in the US.
People are shaky on history, and the more time passes, the more the Holocaust becomes just another dark chapter in the course of millenia of human tragedies. I assume you'd find even fewer who know about the Armenian genocide, or the Rwanda genocide, or the Cambodian genocide, or the "Great Famine" during 18th century British rule of India, which left between three and ten million people dead.
cawacko
Well-known member
Not justifying American ignorance but the Holocaust occurred on European soil. They don't know their own history.
Fair enough. But in another sense, the Holocaust was a global event. It created a refugee crisis and nations like the US share in the guilt for having turned away desperate people fleeing the Holocaust.
I'm curious how many Americans are familiar with various mass slaughters that were on our own soil -- the Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee, Sand Creek, etc.
cawacko
Well-known member
Not to downplay in any way the mass slaughters you referenced but to me being in Europe and not knowing about the Holocaust would be equivalent to being in America and not knowing about slavery.
I see where you're coming from, but I think that's a bit different. Slavery was a thing in America for 250 years, and a very substantial percentage of Americans have ancestors who were slaves. By comparison, the Holocaust only lasted a few years, and impacted a fairly small portion of the population.... and an even smaller proportion of today's population are descended from holocaust survivors. I'm not trying to excuse the ignorance, of course. It boggles the mind that anyone could even get through junior high without knowing about the Holocaust, whether in Europe or anywhere else. I just think it's inevitable that the portion who are ignorant of it will continue to grow, as it recedes into history. Most people just don't know crap about history.
cawacko
Well-known member
I'd argue because the Holocaust is so closely tied with Hitler and WWII it affects most of Europe and it's difficult to grow up in Europe without knowing about the two world wars because they play such a heavy role in their alliances today.
I do not disagree with you about the ignorance of history many people hold.
I was in Washington, DC recently, and I always found the National Holocaust Museum to be compelling and important. I understand there is some sort of memorial in DC now to the victims of totalitarian communism, which I think is a fine idea.
What we don't have is a prominent national memorial in DC dedicated to the tens of millions of blacks who were enslaved, abused, raped, and murdered over the course of 400 years in the U.S.
I think the only reason we do not have a prominent memorial like that in DC is denial, downplaying, dismissal, and 25 Senators from southern states.
cawacko
Well-known member
this is off topic buy how come liberal and progressive folks in Congress don't support John Conyers call to study reparations when he brings it up every other year?
Edit: I left this out but another poster mentioned it, the National Museum of African American History and Culture exists in D.C. Not sure if you want something more.
https://www.si.edu/museums/african-american-museum
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There are probably 500 Holocaust Museums worldwide.. even in places like El Paso and Charleston, SC.
You may be right. However, there is now at least an African American history museum on the Mall, which serves largely the same purpose.
From a strictly political perspective, it's a loser. They won't get enough votes to make it happen, and so all it will do is inflame white racists to try.
There are also solid substantive issues with it. For example, how do you administer such reparations? Do you require people to demonstrate slave ancestry, genealogically? Are reparations pro-rated based on proportion of slave ancestry? Also, isn't any reparation number going to necessarily be felt as a kick in the teeth by some, since no number is going to be sufficient to compensate for generations of forced labor. Isn't it also going to set a precedent where reparations are also owed to other mistreated groups -- e.g., descendants of Native Americans who had their lands taken, their ancestors imprisoned or murdered, etc. What about descendants of victims of American colonialism in places like the Philippines, or descendants of people we bombed in Vietnam, and so on? It just seems like a big can of worms.
Certainly the Europeans I've known have been acutely aware of the Holocaust. But it just doesn't surprise me that 5% aren't aware. Every continent is going to have a bunch of poorly educated people who have missed out on the basics. If anything, I'm a bit surprised the number isn't higher, as it is in the US.
cawacko
Well-known member
You're right, there's no way people would ever agree what reparations should entail let alone pass legislation. But he's trying to make a political point that people he supports are progressive because there would be a national museum to slavery in existence if it weren't for his political opponents (which you already pointed out exists). If those he supports are that progressive then clearly they would support a discussion of reparations. Or maybe he can explain why the museum isn't sufficient and we need more monuments to slavery but discussions of reparations aren't needed.
Controlled Opposition
Note my apathy
A significant point is being missed in the discussion. The survey wasn't all about "THE" Holocaust.
While a significant number of respondents believed that the world Jewish population is around 20%, the fact is that it is 0.2%. It is difficult to argue that their influence is far too significant in proportion.
While a significant number of respondents believed that the world Jewish population is around 20%, the fact is that it is 0.2%. It is difficult to argue that their influence is far too significant in proportion.
I think a museum and reparations are going to be received very differently, politically. Reparations are viewed as individuals wanting a hand-out, whereas museums are set up to be a public good.