CNN Enhances Zimmerman 911 Tape Again, Sounds like F**king Cold...

[Damocles]

It's not nonsense. It was my first reaction to that line - and I'm not a knee-jerk "cry racism" guy. More often than not when race has been discussed on this board, I'll chime in saying it's an overreaction or something.

But I've heard guys talk like that, and sound exactly like GZ did. I'm not saying that it proves definitively that he was a racist, or that this was a racially motivated crime - but it sounded racist to me. His tone & words were a frustration borne in part of racism. He's not following Trayvon because he's a robber - he's following him because he's black.

Interesting take. He couldn't possibly be following an unknown person in a neighborhood that had been victimized by crime in the recent past, he can only be saying a special code that you've "heard guys talking like"?

 

[Onceler]

Interesting take. He couldn't possibly be following an unknown person in a neighborhood that had been victimized by crime in the recent past, he can only be saying a special code that you've "heard guys talking like"?

An "unknown person?" What was it about Trayvon specifically that made him say in a frustrated tone, "These guys always get away?" How many "unknown people" do you think GZ saw around that area on any given day?

Now THAT is nonsense, Damo.

 

[Onceler]

I agree. I feel it's also important to remember that it's not just the racism in one person. It's the racism that is institutional. Why was the dead kid tested for drugs, but the shooter wasn't???? Come on now! Let's be real.

And the attacks on him after his death, just horrifying. It reminded me a lot of my first real lesson in what happens to women victims. It was Jennifer Levin. I couldn't believe what the newspapers wrote about her. Here she was, dead, strangled, and her diary became public. She had had sex before! Of course any girl who had sex before definitely asked the guy to get "rough" with her and is it any surprise he went a little too far, accidentally of course, and killed her? I never forgot that, I bet a lot of women didn't.

And this case really brought home to me how similar it is for black victims of violence. I mean, this was a big eye-opener for me.

Oh, man - I remember that Levin case. Her having sex was a good week's worth of coverage for the Post.

That kind of victim focus (as I'm sure you know) has always been pretty prevalent w/ women, and certainly in rape cases.

 

[Damocles]

An "unknown person?" What was it about Trayvon specifically that made him say in a frustrated tone, "These guys always get away?" How many "unknown people" do you think GZ saw around that area on any given day?

Now THAT is nonsense, Damo.

I think it was because he had reported 40 others where the cops hadn't shown up in time in the previous 8 months. But then we can't take that into account we have to assume it was the special code. Rather than try to learn what brought them to that point, what he might be saying, we assume based on what we "heard some guys say". And it makes you sound like you want to convict before you hear any evidence.

Seriously. I had to take steps back from my position on this one. I was extremely upset that the dude hadn't been arrested... Now I can see that people are doing their jobs, he isn't going anywhere, and if the evidence supports an arrest we will see one.

 

[NOVA]

An "unknown person?" What was it about Trayvon specifically that made him say in a frustrated tone, "These guys always get away?" How many "unknown people" do you think GZ saw around that area on any given day?

Now THAT is nonsense, Damo.

You admit you don't know how many strangers were seen around the neighborhood, in the area, in, say a week....
or how many just disappeared without knowing who they were or why they were in the area....

and then you conclude , THAT is nonsense ?....

 

[Damocles]

BTW - I do believe that without the national attention this may have been swept under the rug. IMHO, the system appeared to be letting this kid down. I can't be sure that they were done with investigation at that time, but it sure seems that way from what I have read, including the police reports.

 

[Onceler]

I think it was because he had reported 40 others where the cops hadn't shown up in the previous 8 months. But then we can't take that into account we have to assume it was the special code. Rather than try to learn what brought them to that point, what he might be saying, we assume based on what we "heard some guys say". And it makes you sound like you want to convict before you hear any evidence.

Seriously. I had to take steps back from my position on this one. I was extremely upset that the dude hadn't been arrested... Now I can see that people are doing their jobs, he isn't going anywhere, and if the evidence supports an arrest we will see one.

I know what you're saying, but I personally feel that the tape is very incriminating. At the very least, he appears to be profiling (which on its own, I don't consider to be racist, btw).

When he says "these guys," it's clear he has already deduced that Trayvon is a robber. Why is that? What is it in particular about Trayvon that automatically = robber in GZ's eyes? I mean, that part of it is pretty obvious to me.

One of his friends/neighbors, in defending GZ, mentioned that he was at his limit on the neighborhood robberies, and implied that something had to give - the frustration had reached its boiling point. And you can hear that on the tape. His friend meant it as a defense, but to me, that is as incriminating as anything. He's had it w/ the robberies, so he picks out the first "suspicious" (aka black) guy he sees walking at night, and that's his target. That's the vessel for his frustration.

 

[Damocles]

I know what you're saying, but I personally feel that the tape is very incriminating. At the very least, he appears to be profiling (which on its own, I don't consider to be racist, btw).

When he says "these guys," it's clear he has already deduced that Trayvon is a robber. Why is that? What is it in particular about Trayvon that automatically = robber in GZ's eyes? I mean, that part of it is pretty obvious to me.

One of his friends/neighbors, in defending GZ, mentioned that he was at his limit on the neighborhood robberies, and implied that something had to give - the frustration had reached its boiling point. And you can hear that on the tape. His friend meant it as a defense, but to me, that is as incriminating as anything. He's had it w/ the robberies, so he picks out the first "suspicious" (aka black) guy he sees walking at night, and that's his target. That's the vessel for his frustration.

I can see it from that perspective, but I need to hear more from the people in the area. I hope if there is a trial we get to see all the evidence. It is interesting. After NBC decided to edit that tape when airing the story Zimmerman really had no chance in many people's eyes. Most can only see a "racist" regardless of what they hear. I can see frustration about any stranger in the area, I don't necessarily believe that it was because they were black. A Hispanic dude knows what that kind of stuff feels like. I find it far more likely it was because he was somebody he didn't know.

One of the things I've learned is that gated communities are everywhere in Florida, it doesn't mean the same thing as it does here. I was thinking rich people. I learned that the homes in that community sold on average for $75K to $120K, that is not a "rich" community. Yet they were victims of robberies rather consistently of late. I can't see why, if I were robbing some place I'd prefer they have stuff that was worth the time if I got caught...

 

[WinterBorn]

Ok, let me give you my impression of what happened and who these people are. Just supposition, mind you, based on 5 decades of life.

Trayvon was a 17 year old that was new to thei neighborhood. From the sounds of the place, I doubt there were many black families. So he felt out of place enough and even more so because he was new. How does a 17 year old male react in new situations? Be a badass. Talk tough. And that is not racist. That fits blacks, whites, hispanics or whoever.

Zimmerman was a guy wanting to be a cop in his neighborhood. Was he an idiot for ignoring what the 911 operator told him? Sure he was. Should he be held accountable for whatever he did? Again, yes. But unless you can show he was truly motivated by racism, convicting him now is wrong. And if he was a racist, why was he the only one pushing for justice after a black homeless man was beaten by the son of a local police officer in 2010? http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/z...or-officers-who-investigated-martin-shooting/

Also, how many blacks live in the gated community? (I believe it is a gated community, right?) For a neighborhood watch to follow someone who does not look like a resident is not farfetched.

I have seen nothing to show either George Zimmerman as a racist or Trayvon Martin as a dangerous hoodlum.

I see a tragedy that has been blown way out of proportion by the media. The inaccurate reporting by the media supporting BOTH sides is the only "proof" I have seen.

 

[poet]

Like I said, you believe what you want to believe and what was originally presented. Edited tapes making the guy look nearly inhuman. I was on here too calling for the guy's arrest. Shoot we didn't even know that he had been arrested and detained in that evening at that time.

Now we see enhanced video first reported as "not showing injuries" now suddenly showing injuries, we hear a tape originally "enhanced" to hear a racial slur enhanced by the very same news network that gave us the first tape with him saying something entirely different.

It's not logic, it's what he said. You want it to show him as the monster you wanted to believe he was.

Dude isn't even white. He's exactly as white as the President is.

He's "white-ish". With a "German" surname. Some might him a pass. There is no way the President would get a pass for being "white". Just the opposite occurs. Barack Obama is routinely called "a Kenyan". Double standard, much?

 

[poet]

Whether Zimmerman is a racist or not is debateable. That he is not under arrest says nothing about whether or not he is racist.

Why isn't it debatable ? Some believe Zimmerman to be "in his rights", and "the victim", here. The fact that he is not under arrest is proof of the double standard for justice in America, or the absence, thereof. His own words condemned him as a racist. His actions supports that belief.

 

[Onceler]

Ok, let me give you my impression of what happened and who these people are. Just supposition, mind you, based on 5 decades of life.

Trayvon was a 17 year old that was new to thei neighborhood. From the sounds of the place, I doubt there were many black families. So he felt out of place enough and even more so because he was new. How does a 17 year old male react in new situations? Be a badass. Talk tough. And that is not racist. That fits blacks, whites, hispanics or whoever.

Zimmerman was a guy wanting to be a cop in his neighborhood. Was he an idiot for ignoring what the 911 operator told him? Sure he was. Should he be held accountable for whatever he did? Again, yes. But unless you can show he was truly motivated by racism, convicting him now is wrong. And if he was a racist, why was he the only one pushing for justice after a black homeless man was beaten by the son of a local police officer in 2010? http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/z...or-officers-who-investigated-martin-shooting/

Also, how many blacks live in the gated community? (I believe it is a gated community, right?) For a neighborhood watch to follow someone who does not look like a resident is not farfetched.

I have seen nothing to show either George Zimmerman as a racist or Trayvon Martin as a dangerous hoodlum.

I see a tragedy that has been blown way out of proportion by the media. The inaccurate reporting by the media supporting BOTH sides is the only "proof" I have seen.

Some very valid observations in here, but "motivated by racism" is kind of a sideline story in this event - it's not a reason for conviction. GZ's actions, imo, were unacceptable...he invited what happened, in a way that makes "self defense" an extremely difficult defense.

 

[WinterBorn]

He's "white-ish". With a "German" surname. Some might him a pass. There is no way the President would get a pass for being "white". Just the opposite occurs. Barack Obama is routinely called "a Kenyan". Double standard, much?

Unless the same people who call President Obama a Kenyan also call Zimmerman white, it is NOT a double standard.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

I really don't want to get emotionally involved in yet another issue here - I feel like I have my hands full with what's been going on with women. Who the hell wants to spend so much time getting emotionally involved with shit on the internet? But some issues are emotional. You can't write about them, or I can't, without getting emotional.

I'll just say on this issue here, IMO, this kid would be alive if he were white, and anyone who thinks this wasn't racist is kidding themselves.

And I'd like to see white men, especially physically large ones, have to walk around for a week of nights as a young black male, or a woman of any race.

This fucking guy was following him. It is stunning to me how many men can't see what that feels like. He was a fucking kid. A kid. You all tell your kids if someone is following you, run.

You tell them that. You know it. You know it.

 

[poet]

Ok, let me give you my impression of what happened and who these people are. Just supposition, mind you, based on 5 decades of life.

Trayvon was a 17 year old that was new to thei neighborhood. From the sounds of the place, I doubt there were many black families. So he felt out of place enough and even more so because he was new. How does a 17 year old male react in new situations? Be a badass. Talk tough. And that is not racist. That fits blacks, whites, hispanics or whoever.

Zimmerman was a guy wanting to be a cop in his neighborhood. Was he an idiot for ignoring what the 911 operator told him? Sure he was. Should he be held accountable for whatever he did? Again, yes. But unless you can show he was truly motivated by racism, convicting him now is wrong. And if he was a racist, why was he the only one pushing for justice after a black homeless man was beaten by the son of a local police officer in 2010? http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/z...or-officers-who-investigated-martin-shooting/

Also, how many blacks live in the gated community? (I believe it is a gated community, right?) For a neighborhood watch to follow someone who does not look like a resident is not farfetched.

I have seen nothing to show either George Zimmerman as a racist or Trayvon Martin as a dangerous hoodlum.

I see a tragedy that has been blown way out of proportion by the media. The inaccurate reporting by the media supporting BOTH sides is the only "proof" I have seen.

Are you insane? Or just plain stupid? How many blacks live in a gated community? Lots. Things are closer to The Cosby Show, than you think. There goes that notion of "white privilege", again, thinking that only whites living in gated communities are conventional wisdom. Who is anyone to say, that someone doesn't belong? Goddamit.

 

[WinterBorn]

Why isn't it debatable ? Some believe Zimmerman to be "in his rights", and "the victim", here. The fact that he is not under arrest is proof of the double standard for justice in America, or the absence, thereof. His own words condemned him as a racist. His actions supports that belief.

I said it is debateable. And the actions of the legal system in that town has nothing to do with whether or not Zimmerman is a racist. In fact, in another post I linked a story about Zimmerman fighting to see the police dept punished for it bias and racism. If Zimmerman himself is a racist, why would he bother working to get justice for a black man?

What words, specifically, condemn him? I haven't seen any quotes that can't be taken several ways.

His actions were stupid, but that all we actually know.

 

[poet]

Unless the same people who call President Obama a Kenyan also call Zimmerman white, it is NOT a double standard.

Ok. I'm convinced the elevator doesn't make it to the top floor. Your statement doesn't even make any sense. The double standard exists, because there are people who think it outrageous that a black man is even in the office of President of the United States...and would deny that Zimmerman is half white. To them, he's "just" a Mexican.
And you obviously are confused by the term "double standard".

 

[cawacko]

I really don't want to get emotionally involved in yet another issue here - I feel like I have my hands full with what's been going on with women. Who the hell wants to spend so much time getting emotionally involved with shit on the internet? But some issues are emotional. You can't write about them, or I can't, without getting emotional.

I'll just say on this issue here, IMO, this kid would be alive if he were white, and anyone who thinks this wasn't racist is kidding themselves.

And I'd like to see white men, especially physically large ones, have to walk around for a week of nights as a young black male, or a woman of any race.

This fucking guy was following him. It is stunning to me how many men can't see what that feels like. He was a fucking kid. A kid. You all tell your kids if someone is following you, run.

You tell them that. You know it. You know it.

Running can be a double edged sword as well as I found out when the undercover cop who kicked my ass basically said he wouldn't have done it if I hadn't run. However yes, at the end of the day I would rather run from someone and be alive then confront someone and be dead.

 

[WinterBorn]

Are you insane? Or just plain stupid? How many blacks live in a gated community? Lots. Things are closer to The Cosby Show, than you think. There goes that notion of "white privilege", again, thinking that only whites living in gated communities are conventional wisdom. Who is anyone to say, that someone doesn't belong? Goddamit.

I didn't ask about any gated community. I asked specifically about the gated community where Zimmerman was on the neighborhood watch. The fact that there are plenty of blacks living in other gated communities has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[poet]

I said it is debateable. And the actions of the legal system in that town has nothing to do with whether or not Zimmerman is a racist. In fact, in another post I linked a story about Zimmerman fighting to see the police dept punished for it bias and racism. If Zimmerman himself is a racist, why would he bother working to get justice for a black man?

What words, specifically, condemn him? I haven't seen any quotes that can't be taken several ways.

His actions were stupid, but that all we actually know.

Did you listen to the 911 tape? His words, there. Don't play stupid.