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Senate approves fiscal cliff legislation 89-8

WASHINGTON (AP) - Hours past a self-imposed deadline for action, the Senate passed legislation early New Year's Day to neutralize a fiscal cliff combination of across-the-board tax increases and spending cuts that kicked in at midnight. The pre-dawn vote was a lopsided 89-8.

Senate passage set the stage for a final showdown in the House, where a vote was expected later Tuesday or perhaps Wednesday on the measure, which also raises tax rates on wealthy Americans.

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Even by the recent dysfunctional standards of government-by-gridlock, the activity at both ends of historic Pennsylvania Avenue was remarkable as the administration and lawmakers spent the final hours of 2012 haggling over long-festering differences.

"It shouldn't have taken this long to come to an agreement, and this shouldn't be the model for how we do things around here," said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, who negotiated the agreement with Vice President Joe Biden.

Under the deal, taxes would remain steady for the middle class and rise at incomes over $400,000 for individuals and $450,000 for couples - levels higher than President Barack Obama had campaigned for in his successful drive for a second term in office.

Spending cuts totaling $24 billion over two months aimed at the Pentagon and domestic programs would be deferred. That would allow the White House and lawmakers time to regroup before plunging very quickly into a new round of budget brinkmanship certain to revolve around Republican calls to rein in the cost of Medicare and other government benefit programs.

Officials also decided at the last minute to use the measure to prevent a $900 pay raise for lawmakers due to take effect this spring.

"One thing we can count on with respect to this Congress is that if there's even one second left before you have to do what you're supposed to do, they will use that last second," the president said in a mid-afternoon status update on the talks. Yet when the roll was called nearly 12 hours later, only six Republicans and two Democrats opposed the measure.

As darkness fell on the last day of the year, Obama, Biden and their aides were at work in the White House, and lights burned in the House and Senate. Democrats complained that Obama had given away too much in agreeing to limit tax increases to incomes over $450,000, far above the $250,000 level he campaigned on. Yet some Republicans recoiled at the prospect of raising taxes at all.

Democratic senators said they expected a post-midnight vote on the measure. They spoke after a closed-door session with Vice President Joseph Biden, who brokered the deal with Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell.

"The argument is that this is the best that can be done on a bipartisan basis," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., when asked about the case the vice president had delivered behind closed doors.

Passage would send the measure to the House, where Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, refrained from endorsing a package as yet unseen by his famously rebellious rank & file. He said the House would not vote on any Senate-passed measure "until House members - and the American people - have been able to review" it.

Numerous GOP officials said McConnell and his aides had kept the speaker's office informed about the progress of the talks.

The House Democratic leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, issued a statement saying that when legislation clears the Senate, "I will present it to the House Democratic caucus."

Without legislation, economists in and out of government warned of a possible recession if the economy were allowed to fall over a fiscal cliff of tax increases and spending cuts.

And while the nominal deadline for action passed at midnight, Obama's signature on legislation by the time a new Congress takes office at noon on Jan. 3, 2013 - the likely timetable - would eliminate or minimize any inconvenience for taxpayers.

A late dispute over the estate tax produced allegations of bad faith from all sides.

After hours of haggling, Biden headed for the Capitol to brief the Democratic rank and file.

Earlier, McConnell had agreed with Obama that an overall deal was near. In remarks on the Senate floor, he suggested Congress move quickly to pass tax legislation and "continue to work on finding smarter ways to cut spending" next year.

The White House and Democrats initially declined the offer, preferring to prevent the cuts from kicking in at the Pentagon and domestic agencies alike. A two-month compromise resulted.

Officials in both parties said the agreement would prevent tax increases at incomes below $400,000 for individuals and $450,000 for couples.

At higher levels, the rate would rise to a maximum of 39.6% from the current 35%. Capital gains and dividends in excess of those amounts would be taxed at 20%, up from 15%.

The deal also would also raise taxes on the portion of estates exceeding $5 million to 40%. At the insistence of Republicans, the $5 million threshold would rise each year with inflation.

Much or all of the revenue to be raised through higher taxes on the wealthy would help hold down the amount paid to the Internal Revenue Service by the middle class.

In addition to preventing higher rates for most, the agreement would retain existing breaks for families with children, for low-earning taxpayers and for those with a child in college. Also, the two sides agreed to prevent the alternative minimum tax from expanding to affect an estimated 28 million households for the first time in 2013, with an average increase of more than $3,000. The law originally was designed to make sure millionaires did not escape taxes, but inflation has gradually exposed more and more households with lower earnings to its impact.

The legislation leaves untouched a scheduled 2%age point increase in the payroll tax, ending a temporary reduction enacted two years ago to help revive the economy.

Officials said the White House had succeeded in gaining a 1-year extension of long-term unemployment benefits about to expire on an estimated two million jobless.

It was unclear whether the legislation would prevent a 27% cut in fees for doctors who treat Medicare patients was unknown.

Also included is a provision to prevent a threatened spike in milk prices after the first of the year.

Even as time was running out, partisan agendas were evident.

Obama used his appearance not only to chastise Congress, but also to lay down a marker for the next round of negotiations early in 2013, when Republicans intend to seek spending cuts in exchange for letting the Treasury to borrow above the current debt limit of $16.4 trillion.

"Now, if Republicans think that I will finish the job of deficit reduction through spending cuts alone - and you hear that sometimes coming from them ... then they've got another think coming. ... That's not how it's going to work at least as long as I'm president," he said.

"And I'm going to be president for the next four years, I think," he added.

Obama's remarks irritated some Republicans.

Sen. John McCain of Arizona they would "clearly antagonize members of the House."
 
Now we get down to making cuts. I'd start with Medicaid non emergency transportation. The costs associated with this program, due in large part to fraud, are easily trimmed.
 
Now we get down to making cuts. I'd start with Medicaid non emergency transportation. The costs associated with this program, due in large part to fraud, are easily trimmed.

How will the elderly and disabled without transportation get around?
 
So in a nutshell, what did they actually do? Or is this round N+1 of "lets see how close we can get to bankruptcy before we just give ourselves more time"
 
So in a nutshell, what did they actually do? Or is this round N+1 of "lets see how close we can get to bankruptcy before we just give ourselves more time"

Well if Greece is any guide this is round 2 of 14

The elites serve to protect the elites. Republican or democrat. While the plebes are playing big Indian little Indian, Rome burns.

Fortunately I am prepared
 
Only a moron would compare our economy with that of Greece.

What It Means When National Debt Exceeds Gross Domestic Production

The national debt of the United States exceeded the gross domestic production for the entire economy in 2011. While dire news, what does it mean to you and me?

Debt and GDP Figures
The economic figures are in for 2011 and they are not good. The national debt was a bit over $15.2 trillion at the end of the year. This surpassed the “GDP” for the entire economy that came in at $15.18 trillion. With the deficit growing by $1.3 trillion or so each year, the divide will only grow from here on out unless the politicians do something.
Yeah, right.

A Plan
A responsible plan for dealing with this problem would be to cut spending while raising taxes. Neither of these solutions works in our democracy because people will vote anyone who takes such action out of office. The Republicans cling to the idea that cutting taxes will spur economic growth and tax revenues, even though the Reagan years saw huge increases in national debt levels. The Democrats want to tax just the rich, which won’t come close to paying off the debt. Either way, the people end up getting screwed.

The Fed
Historically, countries have reacted to this type of situation by having their central bank print and print and print. The problem is sooner or later this will cause massive inflation. The dollar will lose value, which makes it easier to service the national debt. The middle class, however, is hammered as is anyone saving money. Their dollars simply don’t go very far when it comes to buying things. You’ve probably already noticed this as food prices rise.

Weimer Germany
The last country to try to and use money supply expansion to deal with its problems while maintaining low interest and tax rates was Weimer Germany following World War I. It didn’t work out well. You’ve probably seen the pictures of people walking with wheel barrows of money to buy bread. The German currency plummeted in value and the savings of people in any class were wiped out. The same could happen with the dollar soon.

Doomed?
Are we doomed when it comes to the national debt? Yes, I think we are. We have a political environment where the parties can barely agree if the sun is out or not. The chances of them fixing this problem are next to none. The only hope is one party sweeps the coming elections. If that doesn’t happen, you need to invest in land and staple commodities as soon as possible. You can live on land. You cannot live on a pile of useless dollars.
Don’t just listen to me. Read up on the situation and history. Make up your own mind, and be prepared.

http://www.currentusanationaldebt.c...l-Debt-Exceeds-Gross-Domestic-Production.html
 
What It Means When National Debt Exceeds Gross Domestic Production

The national debt of the United States exceeded the gross domestic production for the entire economy in 2011. While dire news, what does it mean to you and me?

Debt and GDP Figures
The economic figures are in for 2011 and they are not good. The national debt was a bit over $15.2 trillion at the end of the year. This surpassed the “GDP” for the entire economy that came in at $15.18 trillion. With the deficit growing by $1.3 trillion or so each year, the divide will only grow from here on out unless the politicians do something.
Yeah, right.

A Plan
A responsible plan for dealing with this problem would be to cut spending while raising taxes. Neither of these solutions works in our democracy because people will vote anyone who takes such action out of office. The Republicans cling to the idea that cutting taxes will spur economic growth and tax revenues, even though the Reagan years saw huge increases in national debt levels. The Democrats want to tax just the rich, which won’t come close to paying off the debt. Either way, the people end up getting screwed.

The Fed
Historically, countries have reacted to this type of situation by having their central bank print and print and print. The problem is sooner or later this will cause massive inflation. The dollar will lose value, which makes it easier to service the national debt. The middle class, however, is hammered as is anyone saving money. Their dollars simply don’t go very far when it comes to buying things. You’ve probably already noticed this as food prices rise.

Weimer Germany
The last country to try to and use money supply expansion to deal with its problems while maintaining low interest and tax rates was Weimer Germany following World War I. It didn’t work out well. You’ve probably seen the pictures of people walking with wheel barrows of money to buy bread. The German currency plummeted in value and the savings of people in any class were wiped out. The same could happen with the dollar soon.

Doomed?
Are we doomed when it comes to the national debt? Yes, I think we are. We have a political environment where the parties can barely agree if the sun is out or not. The chances of them fixing this problem are next to none. The only hope is one party sweeps the coming elections. If that doesn’t happen, you need to invest in land and staple commodities as soon as possible. You can live on land. You cannot live on a pile of useless dollars.
Don’t just listen to me. Read up on the situation and history. Make up your own mind, and be prepared.

http://www.currentusanationaldebt.c...l-Debt-Exceeds-Gross-Domestic-Production.html

Sounds like you are talking about "prepping" which I and others have been doing for years. I have many years worth of food stored, can grow my own food and know how to hunt. Berkey water filters for nice clean water. I have solar and hydro power although the hydro could be better it will get us through. I have LPG backups. Lots of weapons and ammo. Lots of wood on my land to keep us warm and 15 miles from the closest town. The basic necessities are there to keep us going for a minimum of two years. Only thing that is lacking is good means of good reliable communications

When it all comes crashing down and it will, the riff raff are going to be killing each other at Walmart over bottles of water.

It is funny that there are those who scoff at prepping, but I think they wish they were more prepared. It has taken use a few years and a little sacrifice, but I think we can weather a storm.

I really want to get storage container and build an under ground bunker, but that will take a while.
 
Sounds like you are talking about "prepping" which I and others have been doing for years. I have many years worth of food stored, can grow my own food and know how to hunt. Berkey water filters for nice clean water. I have solar and hydro power although the hydro could be better it will get us through. I have LPG backups. Lots of weapons and ammo. Lots of wood on my land to keep us warm and 15 miles from the closest town. The basic necessities are there to keep us going for a minimum of two years. Only thing that is lacking is good means of good reliable communications

When it all comes crashing down and it will, the riff raff are going to be killing each other at Walmart over bottles of water.

It is funny that there are those who scoff at prepping, but I think they wish they were more prepared. It has taken use a few years and a little sacrifice, but I think we can weather a storm.

I really want to get storage container and build an under ground bunker, but that will take a while.

A ham radio should fill the bill.
 
Two reasons I haven't wanted to.

1) need a license and heavily regulated
2) easy to triangulate ones position

Am I mistaken?

Buy a used one and don't apply for the license
Who in the hell is going to triangulate anything, if everything falls apart.

Aside from that; buy one of the Red Cross radios, that you crank.
 
The economy of Greece is than California who have also started taxing the rich and who's economy is better than it has been in years.

Size matters little except that the pain will be greater.

You will be one who learns the hard way. Most I will feel sorry for.

You? You deserve what is coming to uou
 
Cliff avoided: Congress staves off tax hikes

Past its own New Year's deadline, a weary Congress sent President Barack Obama legislation to avoid a national "fiscal cliff" of middle class tax increases and spending cuts late Tuesday night in the culmination of a struggle that strained America's divided government to the limit.

The bill's passage on a bipartisan 257-167 vote in the House sealed a hard-won political triumph for the president less than two months after he secured re-election while calling for higher taxes on the wealthy.

Moments later, Obama strode into the White House briefing room and declared, "Thanks to the votes of Republicans and Democrats in Congress I will sign a law that raises taxes on the wealthiest 2% of Americans while preventing tax hikes that could have sent the economy back into recession."

He spoke with Vice President Joe Biden at his side, a recognition of the former senator's role as the lead Democratic negotiator in final compromise talks with Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

In addition to neutralizing middle class tax increases and spending cuts taking effect with the new year, the legislation will raise tax rates on incomes over $400,000 for individuals and $450,000 for couples. That was higher than the thresholds of $200,000 and $250,000 that Obama campaigned for. But remarkably, in a party that swore off tax increases two decades ago, dozens of Republicans supported the bill at both ends of the Capitol.
 
Cliff avoided: Congress staves off tax hikes

Past its own New Year's deadline, a weary Congress sent President Barack Obama legislation to avoid a national "fiscal cliff" of middle class tax increases and spending cuts late Tuesday night in the culmination of a struggle that strained America's divided government to the limit.

The bill's passage on a bipartisan 257-167 vote in the House sealed a hard-won political triumph for the president less than two months after he secured re-election while calling for higher taxes on the wealthy.

Moments later, Obama strode into the White House briefing room and declared, "Thanks to the votes of Republicans and Democrats in Congress I will sign a law that raises taxes on the wealthiest 2% of Americans while preventing tax hikes that could have sent the economy back into recession."

He spoke with Vice President Joe Biden at his side, a recognition of the former senator's role as the lead Democratic negotiator in final compromise talks with Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

In addition to neutralizing middle class tax increases and spending cuts taking effect with the new year, the legislation will raise tax rates on incomes over $400,000 for individuals and $450,000 for couples. That was higher than the thresholds of $200,000 and $250,000 that Obama campaigned for. But remarkably, in a party that swore off tax increases two decades ago, dozens of Republicans supported the bill at both ends of the Capitol.

You know it is hilarious that the GOP let hm get away with saying that the tax cuts caused the recession to begin with and now by keeping them they prevented a recession?

It is like listening to Baghdad Bob. The GOP is feckless and deserves to lose but who up there is going to fight the good fight?

Boehner and McConnell are worthless.
 
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