Chavez nationalizes mall sounding VERY familiar, now where have we heard this before

[KingCondanomation]

Chavez decides to now nationalize a shopping mall. Why? Read on.

"CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- President Hugo Chavez ordered construction halted on a major shopping mall in Caracas on Sunday, saying the government will expropriate the unfinished building.
The Venezuelan leader said it would be out of line with his government's socialist vision to allow the new Sambil mall to take up precious urban real estate -- and that unbridled consumerism isn't his idea of progress either.

Chavez said the mall, scheduled to open in La Candelaria district in downtown Caracas next year, would severely clog an area that already is so crowded "not a soul fits."

The hulking concrete and brick structure takes up an entire city block and according to the Sambil Web site was to include 273 shops.

"We're going to expropriate that and turn it into a hospital -- I don't know -- a school, a university," Chavez said to applause during his Sunday television and radio program, "Hello, President."

Constructora Sambil, the company building the mall, did not immediately respond to requests for comment. It operates Sambil malls in cities across Venezuela, including another vast shopping center in Caracas.

"How are we going to create socialism turning over vital public spaces to Sambil?" said Chavez, who has nationalized Venezuela's largest phone company, electric utilities and oil fields.

The president also has urged Venezuelans to shed their materialism and their taste for designer clothes, sport utility vehicles, Scotch whisky and plastic surgery.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081221/lt_venezuela_expropriated_mall.html?.v=6


Now who does that sound like? Who have we heard in America rail against consumerism and how Americans are too material and shop too much, blah, blah.
The lines between Chavez the Socialist and modern day American Liberals seem to be thinning all the time...

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

It certainly hasn't thinned enough. Damocrats may as well be Republicans, they are so ridiculously anti-American people. It's like we have a fascist party and a no conservative party - no common sense party to vote for. That's the way it is in America the fascist.

 

[Famov]

The Soclialist leader of a Socialist nation is taking freedom away from the people he is meant to lead?

No, I am not surprised whatsoever. When you give the government unchecked power they will exert it in full at the expense of freedom.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The Soclialist leader of a Socialist nation is taking freedom away from the people he is meant to lead?

No, I am not surprised whatsoever. When you give the government unchecked power they will exert it in full at the expense of freedom.

Of all freedoms, the freedom to be a global coolie and have all my money flow to the top 1% while I receive nothing while we as a middle-class fall behind is the one I prize most.

 

[KingCondanomation]

It certainly hasn't thinned enough. Damocrats may as well be conservatives, they are so ridiculously pro-business. It's like we have a fascist party and a no conservative party - no common sense party to vote for. That's the way it is in America the fascist.

Oh yeah, they're real pro-business. Sarbanes-Oxley has only cost over $1 trillion in lost productivity and shrunk the number of new IPOs declaring on American stock exchanges to incredible lows.
And with the bailouts, the only business getting rewarded are the failures and YOU are in favor of that, NOT Conservatives.

You know Watermark, I know you think you're special and maybe you are in Mississippi but where I come from and most universities, far left idealist teens are the norm. You are just boring man. You know that other thread where you have some fun insulting God? Ever heard of a song called "What if God was one of us?" ? Liberals in the northeast and west coast have been making fun of God and blubbering on about far left ideals for years. You think you're cool doing it but you are really 10 years behind most of the Liberals, just where you live you don't even realize it.

The reality is you are just a very typical far left teen who pays no taxes, very little experience outside the academic world and certainly no life experience. You know fuck for shit about anything.

Your pal,
Dano

 

[cawacko]

Of all freedoms, the freedom to be a global coolie and have all my money flow to the top 1% while I receive nothing while we as a middle-class fall behind is the one I prize most.

I hate to break it to you WM but most people don't "receive" anything at age 19.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Oh yeah, they're real pro-business. Sarbanes-Oxley has only cost over $1 trillion in lost productivity and shrunk the number of new IPOs declaring on American stock exchanges to incredible lows.
And with the bailouts, the only business getting rewarded are the failures and YOU are in favor of that, NOT Conservatives.

You know Watermark, I know you think you're special and maybe you are in Mississippi but where I come from and most universities, far left idealist teens are the norm. You are just boring man. You know that other thread where you have some fun insulting God? Ever heard of a song called "What if God was one of us?" ? Liberals in the northeast and west coast have been making fun of God and blubbering on about far left ideals for years. You think you're cool doing it but you are really 10 years behind most of the Liberals, just where you live you don't even realize it.

The reality is you are just a very typical far left teen who pays no taxes, very little experience outside the academic world and certainly no life experience. You know fuck for shit about anything.

Your pal,
Dano

Thanks for the psychoanalysis Dano. I really needed it today. You just saved my life.

I'm going to go to church now and kill some gays and some middle-class people who don't want to give all their money to the top 1%.

 

[Famov]

Of all freedoms, the freedom to be a global coolie and have all my money flow to the top 1% while I receive nothing while we as a middle-class fall behind is the one I prize most.

No doubt that inciting class tensions and making snide remarks about wealth were some of the first lies Chavez was telling in his campaigns as he ran for President of that nation.

And right after that he went on to tell people just what rights meant the most to them and went on getting rid of all of the other ones.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

No doubt that inciting class tensions and making snide remarks about wealth were some of the first lies Chavez was telling in his campaigns as he ran for President of that nation.

And right after that he went on to tell people just what rights meant the most to them and went on getting rid of all of the other ones.

So you literally believe that's a right?

Because I was going for a sort of big brother thing there. The way the right uses the term "freedom", it's completely antithetical to the term. They want to take away all our freedoms and liberties while saying they're giving us more.

Freedom from atheism
Freedom from speech
Freedom from blacks

The freedoms the right offers us.

 

[Famov]

So you literally believe that's a right?

Because I was going for a sort of big brother thing there. The way the right uses the term "freedom", it's completely antithetical to the term. They want to take away all our freedoms and liberties while saying they're giving us more.

Freedom from atheism
Freedom from speech
Freedom from blacks

The freedoms the right offers us.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but I'm new so I can afford take the bait.

I am not a member of the 'right' and I do not endorse any of the things you are saying. You are creating a false construction of my arguments, otherwise known as a strawman, to make me look like a fascist, when it is indeed you who is supporting the big government killing the freedom of property rights and business! A common tactic, but one easily dismantled.

Also, I'm an atheist anyway.

Why do I support the right for the mall to stay open? Well, it gives people a choice of what to buy. It gives people a place to make money, AND spend it. Thus, it's good for the economy. The right to own and operate a business IS an expression of free speech, and since I support free speech I support this.

Anyone who supports the aimless nationalizing of institutions for government meddling is supporting big government. None of this right and left propaganda BS. Big government operates with the same goals regardless of the political affiliation it claims to be.

 

[KingCondanomation]

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but I'm new so I can afford take the bait.

I am not a member of the 'right' and I do not endorse any of the things you are saying. You are creating a false construction of my arguments, otherwise known as a strawman, to make me look like a fascist, when it is indeed you who is supporting the big government killing the freedom of property rights and business! A common tactic, but one easily dismantled.

Also, I'm an atheist anyway.

Why do I support the right for the mall to stay open? Well, it gives people a choice of what to buy. It gives people a place to make money, AND spend it. Thus, it's good for the economy. The right to own and operate a business IS an expression of free speech, and since I support free speech I support this.

Anyone who supports the aimless nationalizing of institutions for government meddling is supporting big government. None of this right and left propaganda BS. Big government operates with the same goals regardless of the political affiliation it claims to be.

Hey Famov, since you are new, Watermark basically can't decide whether he wants to be a troll or emo lefty of the year, so no worries if you can't figure it out, nobody else can either. Just be careful because he is the king of making up stats and facts and making them sound believable.

BTW, a big welcome to the site!

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Oh yeah, they're real pro-business. Sarbanes-Oxley has only cost over $1 trillion in lost productivity and shrunk the number of new IPOs declaring on American stock exchanges to incredible lows.

Im not sure # of IPO's is a key indicator for a nations's health, plus, maybe SO wasn't the reason.

And with the bailouts, the only business getting rewarded are the failures and YOU are in favor of that, NOT Conservatives.

Nope. In fascism, those are called successes.

You know Watermark, I know you think you're special and maybe you are in Mississippi but where I come from and most universities, far left idealist teens are the norm. You are just boring man. You know that other thread where you have some fun insulting God? Ever heard of a song called "What if God was one of us?" ? Liberals in the northeast and west coast have been making fun of God and blubbering on about far left ideals for years. You think you're cool doing it but you are really 10 years behind most of the Liberals, just where you live you don't even realize it.

The reality is you are just a very typical far left teen who pays no taxes, very little experience outside the academic world and certainly no life experience. You know fuck for shit about anything.

Your pal,
Dano

Watermark is special, dickhole.

 

[blackascoal]

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but I'm new so I can afford take the bait.

I am not a member of the 'right' and I do not endorse any of the things you are saying. You are creating a false construction of my arguments, otherwise known as a strawman, to make me look like a fascist, when it is indeed you who is supporting the big government killing the freedom of property rights and business! A common tactic, but one easily dismantled.

Also, I'm an atheist anyway.

Why do I support the right for the mall to stay open? Well, it gives people a choice of what to buy. It gives people a place to make money, AND spend it. Thus, it's good for the economy. The right to own and operate a business IS an expression of free speech, and since I support free speech I support this.

Anyone who supports the aimless nationalizing of institutions for government meddling is supporting big government. None of this right and left propaganda BS. Big government operates with the same goals regardless of the political affiliation it claims to be.

What you've missed in your analysis is that you're not a Venezuelan. Venezuelans have seen their standards of living improve exponentially under Chavez .. and who have supported and re-elected him in elections that have FAR more integrity than American elections.

Being "americanized" is not the same as freedom.

With the precarious pickle we find ourselves in, all manufactuering disappearing from the US, businesses collapsing all around us .. and finding that SOCIALISM is the only way to save much of American industry ..perhaps we should be less pompous and look to solutions other than giving all our resources to the top 1%.

 

[KingCondanomation]

Im not sure # of IPO's is a key indicator for a nations's health, plus, maybe SO wasn't the reason.

SO was a big reason, if it costs more to operate as a public company with SO (and it does) then it is a big deterrent in deciding to go IPO:

"Many in the venture capital industry blame Sarbanes-Oxley regulations for the reduced number of IPOs. "Sarbanes-Oxley has been very bad for IPOs," Tim Draper, managing director of Draper Fisher Jurvetson, told VCJ in response to an email query. "It costs a minimum of $1 million per year to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley, a real deterrent for small companies to go public. So they are waiting longer."
David Reuter, a vice president with Philadelphia-based private equity firm LLR Partners, agrees that Sarbanes-Oxley has had a profound impact on private companies. "The financial costs and what I'll call emotion cost over the last couple of years are very substantial," he says. "You have a direct hit to your profitability. A lot of private companies are examining that closely
and not going public to remain a more profitable business." He adds that the financial terms of Sarbanes-Oxley have also increased premiums on directors and forced substantial infrastructure investment in order for companies to meet internal reporting requirements."
http://www.llrpartners.com/news/downloads/2005/Venture-Capital-Journal-SOX-11.05.pdf

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

SO was a big reason, if it costs more to operate as a public company with SO (and it does) then it is a big deterrent in deciding to go IPO:

"Many in the venture capital industry blame Sarbanes-Oxley regulations for the reduced number of IPOs. "Sarbanes-Oxley has been very bad for IPOs," Tim Draper, managing director of Draper Fisher Jurvetson, told VCJ in response to an email query. "It costs a minimum of $1 million per year to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley, a real deterrent for small companies to go public. So they are waiting longer."
David Reuter, a vice president with Philadelphia-based private equity firm LLR Partners, agrees that Sarbanes-Oxley has had a profound impact on private companies. "The financial costs and what I'll call emotion cost over the last couple of years are very substantial," he says. "You have a direct hit to your profitability. A lot of private companies are examining that closely
and not going public to remain a more profitable business." He adds that the financial terms of Sarbanes-Oxley have also increased premiums on directors and forced substantial infrastructure investment in order for companies to meet internal reporting requirements."
http://www.llrpartners.com/news/downloads/2005/Venture-Capital-Journal-SOX-11.05.pdf

Dano's one man crusade aqainst the horrors of fraud regulation.

 

[KingCondanomation]

Dano's one man crusade aqainst the horrors of fraud regulation.

I could help reduce all kinds of crime by requiring every person to document what they did all day but that would be a horrible restriction on your freedom and would cost a lot of time out of your day.
Likewise Sarbanes-Oxley MAY help prevent some fraud, perhaps even milions or billions in fraud BUT it has cost so far over $1.3 trillion to implement and counting, has deterred IPOs (as shown above) and greatly hampered American companies ability to compete which affects all of us in terms of jobs and salaries.
The cure is worse than the disease by a lot.

You like to think Libertarians are people who won't bend on their beliefs or recognize their faults with their beliefs, but you never stop and consider that maybe we all see the same problems you do, but realize the solution from government is worse.

 

[Jarod]

Chavez decides to now nationalize a shopping mall. Why? Read on.

"CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- President Hugo Chavez ordered construction halted on a major shopping mall in Caracas on Sunday, saying the government will expropriate the unfinished building.
The Venezuelan leader said it would be out of line with his government's socialist vision to allow the new Sambil mall to take up precious urban real estate -- and that unbridled consumerism isn't his idea of progress either.

Chavez said the mall, scheduled to open in La Candelaria district in downtown Caracas next year, would severely clog an area that already is so crowded "not a soul fits."

The hulking concrete and brick structure takes up an entire city block and according to the Sambil Web site was to include 273 shops.

"We're going to expropriate that and turn it into a hospital -- I don't know -- a school, a university," Chavez said to applause during his Sunday television and radio program, "Hello, President."

Constructora Sambil, the company building the mall, did not immediately respond to requests for comment. It operates Sambil malls in cities across Venezuela, including another vast shopping center in Caracas.

"How are we going to create socialism turning over vital public spaces to Sambil?" said Chavez, who has nationalized Venezuela's largest phone company, electric utilities and oil fields.

The president also has urged Venezuelans to shed their materialism and their taste for designer clothes, sport utility vehicles, Scotch whisky and plastic surgery.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081221/lt_venezuela_expropriated_mall.html?.v=6


Now who does that sound like? Who have we heard in America rail against consumerism and how Americans are too material and shop too much, blah, blah.
The lines between Chavez the Socialist and modern day American Liberals seem to be thinning all the time...

It sounds like the Pope to me... Or Conservative talking about plastic surgery and how consumerism has taken over Christmas and all.

 

[Famov]

What you've missed in your analysis is that you're not a Venezuelan. Venezuelans have seen their standards of living improve exponentially under Chavez .. and who have supported and re-elected him in elections that have FAR more integrity than American elections.

Being "americanized" is not the same as freedom.

With the precarious pickle we find ourselves in, all manufactuering disappearing from the US, businesses collapsing all around us .. and finding that SOCIALISM is the only way to save much of American industry ..perhaps we should be less pompous and look to solutions other than giving all our resources to the top 1%.

Yes, the Venezuelans happen to like him. That is irrelevant of the fact that he has taken their freedoms away.

Crossing national borders doesn't change what is and isn't actual freedom. It only changes what the general opinion may be. But freedom is described as the ability of the individual to do what he wants without interference from his governing institution. Hence, nationalizing the mall is taking away of several freedoms. The freedom to shop at a private institution, the freedom to own a private institution, the freedom to appropriate money as you please, etc.

I never said anything about being 'americanized'. I am talking about freedom. When I use the word 'freedom' I mean it to describe the state of being free. Free from what? A number of things, the governing institution is one of them.

But please, do explain how the Venezuelan elections have more integrity than the American ones. I'm wondering how exactly you define 'integrity' if you believe that. This discussion has been enough about semantics anyway.

Blah blah blah top one percent blah blah blah. If you're talking about the bailouts, I do not support that whatsoever as that is a Socialist thing to do.

I do not much care about losing manufacturing jobs as they are not the future. our businesses should be allowed to compete on a global level because it is not the governments job to tell me where I can make my products. Protectionism is backwards thinking that doesn't belong in a nation where the people supposedly have the freedom of choice.

But then again, the same can be said for the ideology of Socialism.