Century-old Francis Scott Key monument defaced with 'racist anthem' in Baltimore

Darth Omar said:
Does your deflection indicate you concede the point?
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Were you lying? Or were you just mistaken about Lee owning slaves? The distinction between lying and making a mistake is important, but I don't even see you acknowledging the noteworthy misinformation you posted.

When someone says "Robert E Lee did not own slaves", then it turns out that is not only factually wrong but the writer even refuses to acknowledge or rectify their mistake, I don't trust any of their thought process.

So the short answer is no, I do not accept your premise, and it should be noted that you either willingly lied, or provided false information. Everything you post should be fact checked for truthfulness from now on.

Carry on.
 
Darth Omar said:
If the Monument Crusaders want to be logically consistent moralizers, Jefferson needs to go.

Jefferson not only was a slave owner---he apparently used them for sex slaves. So Jefferson was actually a worse character than Robert E Lee. Lee didn't own slaves, didn't like the institution and didn't even want to split from the North, but his allegiance was to his beloved state of VA. So off to war he went.

But the Crusaders run roughshod over such historical nuance. The only thing that matters is their moral judgments and proclamations. They apparently can't accept that all of the players who helped make this nation what it is---every one of them, had moral failings.

Arguably, their greatest sin was being born into an era and in a culture where human slavery was tolerated if not accepted. It's telling that this country gets zero credit for fighting a bloody civil war to end it.

But guess what, Crusaders. You don't need to time travel to find human slavery. There's plenty of it to be found, actually. Sex slavery is a big business in many parts of the world, for example. Join in the fight to end it.

But that means getting up off your ass and looking for it and doing something besides indulging in moral preening over a keyboard.
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Was Jefferson an American patriot? That is the standard, Darth. That will remain the standard until the German barbarians are overrunning DC, but, at least the ruins we leave behind will be of American patriots.

Isn't it funny, though, that Lee thought Virginia was worth following into Hell? How far that Commonwealth has fallen today, because, I'm fairly certain no one gives a shit about Virginia, save for the DC crowd inhabiting Fairfax County.
 
3D, droppin' the mike.

The hand-wringing over the idea that people today might not understand how "conflicted" some treasonous slavery-defenders were is really something to behold.
 
Threedee said:
Was Jefferson an American patriot? That is the standard, Darth. That will remain the standard until the German barbarians are overrunning DC, but, at least the ruins we leave behind will be of American patriots.

Isn't it funny, though, that Lee thought Virginia was worth following into Hell? How far that Commonwealth has fallen today, because, I'm fairly certain no one gives a shit about Virginia, save for the DC crowd inhabiting Fairfax County.
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Patriotism is your standard ThreeD.

Not the absolutists standard.
 
Threedee said:
Was Jefferson an American patriot? That is the standard, Darth. That will remain the standard until the German barbarians are overrunning DC, but, at least the ruins we leave behind will be of American patriots.

Isn't it funny, though, that Lee thought Virginia was worth following into Hell? How far that Commonwealth has fallen today, because, I'm fairly certain no one gives a shit about Virginia, save for the DC crowd inhabiting Fairfax County.
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Lee was patriotic to his state of Virginia. as I previously mentioned it was most common to call our country:
these United States until after the civil war. Then it became common to call it the United States.

To break that down for you Mr. Patriot -one's allegiance was more to one's home state then the general federal gov't.

Once again -the whole point of this thread- is to show when judging historical figures,
it has to be done thru the lens of their contemporary times.
 
Thing1 said:
3D, droppin' the mike.

The hand-wringing over the idea that people today might not understand how "conflicted" some treasonous slavery-defenders were is really something to behold.
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simplistic garbage.
an example of how absolutism denies the reality of the times being discussed
 
Darth Omar said:
That's the problem with absolutism lol.

The Jefferson Monument has to go.
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some goofball was defacing it the other day.

This is our Cultural Revolution madness on display.
PC driven insanity that everything has to fit in a square hole, even if it's a round peg
 
noise said:
Lee was patriotic to his state of Virginia. as I previously mentioned it was most common to call our country:
these United States until after the civil war. Then it became common to call it the United States.

To break that down for you Mr. Patriot -one's allegiance was more to one's home state then the general federal gov't.

Once again -the whole point of this thread- is to show when judging historical figures,
it has to be done thru the lens of their contemporary times.
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You are pretending (lying, really) that the standard for patriotism has evolved alongside morals such as abolition.

It has not.
 
Threedee said:
You are pretending (lying, really) that the standard for patriotism has evolved alongside morals such as abolition.

It has not.
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you bought up "patriotism". I've shown you how the US was looked at both before and after the Civil War..From a collection of states united, to a more unified whole country with less emphasis on one's home state..
Other then that Your post is mostly gibberish
 
Thing1 said:
Poor Robert E. Lee. So "conflicted" - if only people understood him better.

I guess he got over his "conflicts," because he still decided to LEAD THE FIGHT TO PRESERVE SLAVERY.
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Because that's what democrats do. Whether it's the 19th century or now, democrats are in the business of keeping black people down.

Thank you for your insight, Liberal1.
 
noise said:
you bought up "patriotism". I've shown you how the US was looked at both before and after the Civil War..From a collection of states united, to a more unified whole country with less emphasis on one's home state..
Other then that Your post is mostly gibberish
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That is how southerners viewed patriotism at the time; it is what allowed for them to secede. Real Americans viewed patriotism as loyalty to the nation as a whole, and to the ideals enshrined in our national documents. They viewed treason as it is outlined in the Constitution - as offenses committed against the US as a nation.
 
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