Can THC Help Some Schizophrenics?

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Can THC Help Some Schizophrenics?
by Bruce Mirken


The surprising finding that THC might help at least a small percentage of schizophrenia patients for whom conventional treatments have failed was reported in the June issue of the Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology.

This is surprising because, as the British government’s Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs reported last year, “there is clear evidence that the use of cannabis may worsen the symptoms of schizophrenia and lead to relapse.” The ACMD — a far more objective body than any U.S. government outfit remotely connected to drug policy — did not consider marijuana to be a significant cause of psychosis in otherwise healthy people; its report reflects a broad consensus that marijuana (and specifically THC) can worsen the prognosis of schizophrenics or those with a genetic vulnerability to schizophrenia.

But doctors at the Rockland Psychiatric Center in Orangeburg, New York, reviewing the records of one severely ill patient — a man who was “grossly psychotic, assaultive, disorganized” and not responding to conventional treatment — noticed that he had a history of “calm behavior when he was using marijuana.” So as an experiment, they prescribed THC capsules (dronabinol, brand name Marinol). “Remarkably,” they write, “he became calm, logical, nonviolent, and cooperative within days and was discharged within weeks.”

They then tried the same thing with five other patients with a similar history — unresponsive to conventional treatments but showing some signs of improvement when they smoked marijuana. Three of these “improved to a clinically significant extent,” one showed no significant change, and one got somewhat worse. That’s a remarkable level of success in chronically ill patients for whom conventional antipsychotic drugs had failed, “in which success with any intervention might be unlikely.”

The article goes on to lay out some possible explanations, but at this point no one knows for sure why this small group of psychotic patients had an anomalous and positive reaction to THC. What is clear is that the relationship of cannabinoids to schizophrenia is more complex and variable than even many experts — much less anti-marijuana propagandists – have acknowledged.
 
Yeah, I wouldn't go parading this around as if ti were fact yet. This "test" doesn't even begin to be conclusive.

Do they often print the results of tests that weren't double blind, and didn't involve a control group or placebo?
 
Yeah, I wouldn't go parading this around as if ti were fact yet. This "test" doesn't even begin to be conclusive.

Do they often print the results of tests that weren't double blind, and didn't involve a control group or placebo?
What kind of placebo would you use? A fake cigarette? How would you make it smell like the Ganja?
 
dude I'm the official scanner of MPP and NORML, I'll post all positive studies they do.
If I'm not baked that day.
 
Their "study" was too small to derive any conclusions. Observations such as this cannot ethically include a control group, which a true scientific design would require. Not only that, but the treatment was not effective in all cases either, so statistically no conclusions could emerge either.

That the patients were nonresponsive to conventional treatments may (I repeat, "may") suggest that they were misdiagnosed. Perhaps the published article included information as to which treatments had been given in the past and for how long. In addition, what were the observers' criteria for "success" in the THC effort? Was it an improvement in psychotic ideation or simply that the patients became calmer? Some schizophrenics may actually become violent after smoking a joint. The original antipsychotic drugs were initially used for their apparent calming effects, (circa 1955) and were called "major tranquillizers" for many years. It was noticed that after some weeks the patients' psychotic symptoms had begun to improve, and thereafter the antipsychotic properties of haloperidol and chlorpromazine became their principal treatment objective. Their severe side effects have led to considerable research to maximize treatment and minimize undesirable effects.

This was an interesting find, Top, but the journal isn't the greatest in the field, and I'm pretty skeptical about a number of elements.
 
Obviously it's no more than a weak tid bit. That said 2 things
1. Anybody who's ever burned tree regularly knows it calms you, takes the evilness up out your act
2. I'm such a one issue trud. I'd probably switch back to republican and suck Newt Gingrich's cock if they took the torch of leagalization as a republican winner for 2012
 
P.S. can anyone detect withdrawl sympoms

I'll answer both your posts in this one.

1. Your first point that anyone who smokes MJ regularly finds it calming. That is undoubtedly true, but it doesn't account for those who do not smoke regularly, and perhaps do not because the effects, for them, are not so pleasant. I know some people who have found that their anxiety increased under MJ to the point where it pretty much became paranoia as long as the drug effect lasted. It seems to amplify whatever emotion the person is feeling at the time, perhaps is mediated by their expectations. Also as I mentioned, some schizophrenics may become violent under the influence of THC.

Your second post asked about withdrawal. The therapeutic effect takes about three weeks to develop, so actually subjective withdrawal effects should the patient discontinue taking the antipsychotic drug are far less detectable. Most would involve movement effects, although the first generation drugs that caused this are no longer widely used. Unfortunately patient compliance among schizophrenics in taking thier meds on their own is discouragingly low. We're still working on eliminating the physical (esp. weight gain) and subjective side effects that make the meds unpleasant. Their efficacy today is much higher but we still have some way to go.

The drug that a patient definitely does NOT want to discontinue cold turkey is benzodiazepines, such as Valium. Abrupt discontinuation after continuous, longterm use can be fatal.
 
No doubt you are correct. Are you the board sceintist, that hurt my head just reading it.

Word up on the paranoia. It definaltley heightens that. I basically don't burn and go out in public for that reason.
 
No doubt you are correct. Are you the board sceintist, that hurt my head just reading it.

Word up on the paranoia. It definaltley heightens that. I basically don't burn and go out in public for that reason.

One of them. I work on antipsychotic drugs for a living. :)
 
can you suggest any sites I can go to and get peer reviewed studies on MJ. Or has the gov basically banned it.
 
can you suggest any sites I can go to and get peer reviewed studies on MJ. Or has the gov basically banned it.

Try this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=PubMed

I haven't tried this from home, but certainly have access through the University. There's also a good clinical database available through that site.

I'll have to warn you: you'd better narrow your search a LOT, or you'll be getting thousands of hits, most of which will deal with stuff you're not interested in. You definitely want articles with abstracts; the rest is up to you.
 
I'm still wondering about that 'journal'. It seems rather a bad practice to publish non-peer reviewed, unblinded studies.

Peer review is inherent in the publishing process of the Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology. All journals are, however, not equal. There are a few "elite" where most investigators aspire to publish, and then there are those from which articles are given only a cursory glance, all the while wondering why the work was published there and not somewhere better.

For instance, I wonder why the study under discussion wasn't published in Schizophrenia or in the Archives of General Psychiatry, for example. My guess is that it's because it wasn't a rigorous, empirical study, but data that could only be considered anecdotal at best.
 
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Can THC Help Some Schizophrenics?
by Bruce Mirken


The surprising finding that THC might help at least a small percentage of schizophrenia patients for whom conventional treatments have failed was reported in the June issue of the Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology.

This is surprising because, as the British government’s Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs reported last year, “there is clear evidence that the use of cannabis may worsen the symptoms of schizophrenia and lead to relapse.” The ACMD — a far more objective body than any U.S. government outfit remotely connected to drug policy — did not consider marijuana to be a significant cause of psychosis in otherwise healthy people; its report reflects a broad consensus that marijuana (and specifically THC) can worsen the prognosis of schizophrenics or those with a genetic vulnerability to schizophrenia.

But doctors at the Rockland Psychiatric Center in Orangeburg, New York, reviewing the records of one severely ill patient — a man who was “grossly psychotic, assaultive, disorganized” and not responding to conventional treatment — noticed that he had a history of “calm behavior when he was using marijuana.” So as an experiment, they prescribed THC capsules (dronabinol, brand name Marinol). “Remarkably,” they write, “he became calm, logical, nonviolent, and cooperative within days and was discharged within weeks.”

They then tried the same thing with five other patients with a similar history — unresponsive to conventional treatments but showing some signs of improvement when they smoked marijuana. Three of these “improved to a clinically significant extent,” one showed no significant change, and one got somewhat worse. That’s a remarkable level of success in chronically ill patients for whom conventional antipsychotic drugs had failed, “in which success with any intervention might be unlikely.”

The article goes on to lay out some possible explanations, but at this point no one knows for sure why this small group of psychotic patients had an anomalous and positive reaction to THC. What is clear is that the relationship of cannabinoids to schizophrenia is more complex and variable than even many experts — much less anti-marijuana propagandists – have acknowledged.

In my experience Smoking pots makes most Schitzo's or mentally unstable people worse. Yes it is possible in a few it might help. Anything is possible.

I deal with mentally disturbed Vets and have had a couple of legally schitzo inlaws in the past.
 
No doubt you are correct. Are you the board sceintist, that hurt my head just reading it.

Word up on the paranoia. It definaltley heightens that. I basically don't burn and go out in public for that reason.

No paranoia here, and I have never experienced it, though my husband gave it up in his 20's because he felt paranoid and several friends experience it, but most I know that smoke don't have paranoia, but short and long time smokers.
 
can you suggest any sites I can go to and get peer reviewed studies on MJ. Or has the gov basically banned it.

I believe there were some studies done in the Netherlands. I will check into it.
 
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