CA Bans Gay Conversion Theory for Minors

some believe that homosexuality is bad behavior. one could also make the argument that bad behavior (the kind you go to reform camp for) is also wired.

do you see the slippery slope?

there are always some loose nuts rolling around with their 'beliefs' which are not rooted in science, fortunately they are a minority

the behaviorists have been largely discredited but there are still some around

Behavior modification is critiqued in person-centered psychotherapeutic approaches such as Rogerian Counseling and Re-evaluation Counseling,[SUP][18][/SUP] which involve "connecting with the human qualities of the person to promote healing", while behaviorism is "denigrating to the human spirit".[SUP][19][/SUP] B.F. Skinner argues in Beyond Freedom and Dignity that unrestricted reinforcement is what led to the "feeling of freedom", thus removal of aversive events allows people to "feel freer".[SUP][20][/SUP] Further criticism extends to the presumption that behavior increases only when it is reinforced. This premise is at odds with research conducted by Albert Bandura at Stanford University. His findings indicate that violent behavior is imitated, without being reinforced, in studies conducted with children watching films showing various individuals "beating the daylights out of Bobo". Bandura believes that human personality and learning is the result of the interaction between environment, behavior and psychological process. There is evidence, however, that imitation is a class of behavior that can be learned just like anything else. Children have been shown to imitate behavior that they have never displayed before and are never reinforced for, after being taught to imitate in general.[SUP][21][/SUP]
Several people have criticized the level of training required to perform behavior modification procedures, especially those that are restrictive or use aversives, aversion therapy, orpunishment protocols. Some desire to limit such restrictive procedures only to licensed psychologists or licensed counselors. Once licensed for this group, post-licensed certification in behavior modification is sought to show scope of competence in the area through groups like the World Association for Behavior Analysis [5]. Still others desire to create an independent practice of behavior analysis through licensure to offer consumers choices between proven techniques and unproven ones (see Professional practice of behavior analysis). Level of training and consumer protection remain of critical importance in applied behavior analysis and behavior modification.
While behavior analysis continues to grow as a science by including more environmental factors and behaviorism grows as a philosophy, some continue to criticize it for being reductionist.
 
Doesn't matter what some "believe", it is junk science.
His argument(if I got it right) wasn't that gay reform camps aren't crap, but that the law could be pushed beyond that into areas it wasn't marketed as covering. What about Juvenile Detention? a camp where they attempt to reform behavior that they consider bad and which others might consider a product of "wiring".
 
His argument(if I got it right) wasn't that gay reform camps aren't crap, but that the law could be pushed beyond that into areas it wasn't marketed as covering. What about Juvenile Detention? a camp where they attempt to reform behavior that they consider bad and which others might consider a product of "wiring".

It doesn't matter, the premise is wrong, homosexuality isn't bad, therefore, Constitutionally, you can not argue that it is bad. If your religious belief condemn homosexuality, fine, but keep it in church, don't marry your boyfriend/girlfriend. Consenting adults does not hurt either party.
 
and of course the liberal circle jerk ignores actual substance.
Hey I agreed with you, but adressing a point is much harder than just doing the fallback position that we've got down to an art.

Liberals: This is shocking, isn't it awful how bad gays have it?
Cons: Gays are terrible and deserve their crap
Libs: You're all backwards and inbred
Cons: F***'in Libtards
Libs: F***'in Con Nazi's

And around and around, add personal insults to taste.
 
It doesn't matter, the premise is wrong, homosexuality isn't bad, therefore, Constitutionally, you can not argue that it is bad. If your religious belief condemn homosexuality, fine, but keep it in church, don't marry your boyfriend/girlfriend. Consenting adults does not hurt either party.

First of all I feel like some introductory knowledge is important, though I thought my position was readily available. I have no problem with homosexuals, lettem marry and be as miserable as everyone else. Now on to the point:

Adults are totally beside the issue. This is about it being illegal now to send kids to anti gay indoctrination camps, gone's point was that that could be expanded into other areas that the law was not intended for, he used juvenile detention for offenders as an example.
 
First of all I feel like some introductory knowledge is important, though I thought my position was readily available. I have no problem with homosexuals, lettem marry and be as miserable as everyone else. Now on to the point:

Adults are totally beside the issue. This is about it being illegal now to send kids to anti gay indoctrination camps, gone's point was that that could be expanded into other areas that the law was not intended for, he used juvenile detention for offenders as an example.

Yes, but I was giving you the reason why the premise is wrong, it comes from the assumption that homosexuality is bad, and indocrination children into believing it is bad is worse and is junk.

Boot Camps have saved a couple of my kids friends from prison, so I don't have a problem with a well run military style camp for juvenile offenders, but indocrination camp for homosexuals are like indoctrination to make a left handed person a right handed person because left is of the Devil.
 
Last edited:
Yes, but I was giving you the reason why the premise is wrong, it comes from the assumption that homosexuality is bad, and endocrination children into believing it is bad is worse and is junk.

Boot Camps have saved a couple of my kids friends from prison, so I don't have a problem with a well run military style camp for juvenile offenders, but endocrination camp for homosexuals are like endoctrination to make a left handed person a right handed person because left is of the Devil.
Ok don't have a problem with any of that, except for where it's spelled "indoctrination" that confused me.

But the point was that the law sets precedent for the removal of said boot camps as indoctrination. It's stepping into ground that may or may not be parenting territory.
 
Ok don't have a problem with any of that, except for where it's spelled "indoctrination" that confused me.

But the point was that the law sets precedent for the removal of said boot camps as indoctrination. It's stepping into ground that may or may not be parenting territory.

If a small spelling error confused you, please forgive me, hope you are feeling good about yourself!

Parents don't have the right to abuse their children, this is not stepping on any ground, it is abuse.
 
Hey I agreed with you, but adressing a point is much harder than just doing the fallback position that we've got down to an art.

Liberals: This is shocking, isn't it awful how bad gays have it?
Cons: Gays are terrible and deserve their crap
Libs: You're all backwards and inbred
Cons: F***'in Libtards
Libs: F***'in Con Nazi's

And around and around, add personal insults to taste.
What are you talking about? Your imagined conversation is bullshit...it really is. You're projecting.
 
What are you talking about? Your imagined conversation is bullshit...it really is. You're projecting.

There is no 'issue' about the notion of all reforms being done away with...what bullshit.

The point is that 'reforming' homosexuality is horseshit, junk science. Gayness isn't a behaviour problem. Gay hate is what needs reform.
 
Of course it is and it's used to make money by religious zealots. How does this get into this other area other than the usual suspects making a paranoid conjecture about it being 'misused'... military style camps for juveniles have already been implicated in abuse how does this law possibly have any relation to the abuse of homosexual youth by religious bigots?

It's a good law BTW...kudos to California once again for being ahead of the curve!!!
 
If a small spelling error confused you, please forgive me, hope you are feeling good about yourself!

Parents don't have the right to abuse their children, this is not stepping on any ground, it is abuse.

It was just a spelling error you don't often see. Forgiveness is granted since I am hardly one to throw stones, but it was just an unusual one.

Parents push their children toward things in life all the time, you could easily point to church indoctrination when they're too young to know better or sports when the poor kid is just learning to walk. Parents mess all their children up. Still think this law is close to the line.
 
What are you talking about? Your imagined conversation is bullshit...it really is. You're projecting.

Have you been reading the same thread I have? All you have to look at are the arguments between Dixie and Bijou, I've just simplified it down since I dislike writing more than I have too.
 
If not then tell me about the day you DECIDED to be whoever you are sexually.
Well it was sunny and the birds were singing in the trees...

Really though I'd put sexual preference as more choice than genetics, some people may be predisposed to lean one way or the other but it's still a choice. Not saying homosexuality is a sin(because I think religions are full of crap) but how else do you explain all the weird flip flopping behavior that goes on?
 
It was just a spelling error you don't often see. Forgiveness is granted since I am hardly one to throw stones, but it was just an unusual one.

Parents push their children toward things in life all the time, you could easily point to church indoctrination when they're too young to know better or sports when the poor kid is just learning to walk. Parents mess all their children up. Still think this law is close to the line.

There are things that border on abuse, Honey Boo Boo comes to mind for me, your sports example, are misguided, but telling a child to change something that is their human make up, in their genetics, because of your beliefs is definitely abuse, it can result in great harm. Children who continue to have feelings for their same sex after treatment are often suicidal or have substance abuse or other problems, like run always.
 
Well it was sunny and the birds were singing in the trees...

Really though I'd put sexual preference as more choice than genetics, some people may be predisposed to lean one way or the other but it's still a choice. Not saying homosexuality is a sin(because I think religions are full of crap) but how else do you explain all the weird flip flopping behavior that goes on?

Experimenting in college and knowing you are a homosexual at an early age are very different things.
 
Experimenting in college and knowing you are a homosexual at an early age are very different things.
I'd make the argument that a good amount of the time people who "know" they are homosexual are latching onto an identity. Part of the growing phase is the self finding part, it's one of the things that makes teens crazy. On the upside somebody who claims they're homsexual is far less annoying than somebody who claims to be budhist or vegan. I'm sticking by my choice over chromosomes position and you can stick with yours.

Since they both end up in the same place of "Let them marry and do what they want."
 
If not then tell me about the day you DECIDED to be whoever you are sexually.

As far as I am concerend sexuality is on a spectrum. The link I posted said women are almost always bisexual. But I was asking a question of him, as I did not expect he would believe so.

I think I mangled some of the terminology, but the suspected genetic markers are not deterministic. They only make it more likely.
 
Back
Top