moon
Satire for Sanity
Air India flight, carrying 242 people, crashes on takeoff from Ahmedabad
Flight 171 was bound for Gatwick Airport, authorities in London confirmed, as search and rescue teams deployed.
Boeing, Boeing.........gone
- Thread starter moon
- Start date
signalmankenneth
Verified User
Air India 787 crash is the first involving a Boeing Dreamliner, this doesn't look good for Boeing if this was a 787 malfunction?!!Air India flight, carrying 242 people, crashes on takeoff from Ahmedabad
Flight 171 was bound for Gatwick Airport, authorities in London confirmed, as search and rescue teams deployed.www.aljazeera.com
moon
Satire for Sanity
We'll see;
'
Last month, Boeing celebrated carrying its billionth passenger on the 787 Dreamliner - an impressive feat given it only launched 14 years ago. Until today's tragic Air India crash in Ahmedabad, the model was a mainstay of intercontinental travel and had an exemplary safety record.
This is a different plane from the Boeing 737 Max, which was in the headlines after fatal crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia, which killed hundreds of people in 2018 and 2019 respectively.
A software fault was found to have caused those incidents and the model was grounded worldwide for 18 months.
So far, there is nothing to suggest any fault on Boeing's side today in India. A much fuller picture will come once the plane's black boxes - the electronic recording devices that store vital flight information - have been recovered. '
'
Last month, Boeing celebrated carrying its billionth passenger on the 787 Dreamliner - an impressive feat given it only launched 14 years ago. Until today's tragic Air India crash in Ahmedabad, the model was a mainstay of intercontinental travel and had an exemplary safety record.
This is a different plane from the Boeing 737 Max, which was in the headlines after fatal crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia, which killed hundreds of people in 2018 and 2019 respectively.
A software fault was found to have caused those incidents and the model was grounded worldwide for 18 months.
So far, there is nothing to suggest any fault on Boeing's side today in India. A much fuller picture will come once the plane's black boxes - the electronic recording devices that store vital flight information - have been recovered. '
Scott
Verified User
I definitely think it's a shame, especially considering it's the only commercial aircraft I know that doesn't play the toxic air lottery:
“Asbestos of the Sky” - The Aviation Industry’s Darkest Coverup
Exposing the hidden epidemic of toxic cabin air and the silenced truths haunting modern aviation.
sayerji.substack.com
Here’s an excerpt from the article:
**Flying the Toxic Skies: A Daily Global Risk
The only commercial aircraft that does not use bleed air is the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, which employs electrically powered compressors to bring in outside, non-engine-derived air. Unfortunately, Boeing 787s make up less than 5% of global commercial flights.
With approximately 100,000 flights occurring daily worldwide, and estimates suggesting that at least 1 in every 100 flights experiences a significant "fume event", this means millions of passengers and crew are being exposed dailyto toxic air—often without their knowledge.
The Bleed Air Problem: Expert Insight from the Aerotoxic Association
Organizations like the Aerotoxic Association have been tirelessly working to expose the dangers of cabin air contamination. They explain:
"Bleed air comes from the compressor section of the jet engine, which has to be lubricated. Jet engines mostly have 'wet seals' to keep the oil and air apart, which cannot be 100% effective… These seals wear out over time or may fail suddenly, allowing significant amounts of oil to enter the hot compressed bleed air, resulting in fumes or smoke entering the cabin—a situation known as a ‘fume event.’”
Importantly, they add:
“There are no filters in the bleed air supply to stop this from happening.”
Jet engine oil is no ordinary lubricant. It's made from synthetic chemicals, specifically designed to withstand extreme temperatures. These oils:
Are not petroleum-based
Contain organophosphates and aromatic hydrocarbons
Can become chemically altered (pyrolyzed) at high temperatures, forming even more toxic byproducts**
moon
Satire for Sanity
I wonder what sort of security is in place to ensure that the correct people retrieve and examine the black boxes and publish the results.
They've even made a movie about corruption at this level.
en.wikipedia.org
They've even made a movie about corruption at this level.
Black Box (2021 film) - Wikipedia
Last edited:
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Whoever wrote that article is an idiot. Compressors have to be lubricated too whatever their power source is. Most of the cabin air is recirculated during flight and run through a HEPA filter system with each pass.I definitely think it's a shame, especially considering it's the only commercial aircraft I know that doesn't play the toxic air lottery:
“Asbestos of the Sky” - The Aviation Industry’s Darkest Coverup
Exposing the hidden epidemic of toxic cabin air and the silenced truths haunting modern aviation.
Here’s an excerpt from the article:
**Flying the Toxic Skies: A Daily Global Risk
The only commercial aircraft that does not use bleed air is the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, which employs electrically powered compressors to bring in outside, non-engine-derived air. Unfortunately, Boeing 787s make up less than 5% of global commercial flights.
With approximately 100,000 flights occurring daily worldwide, and estimates suggesting that at least 1 in every 100 flights experiences a significant "fume event", this means millions of passengers and crew are being exposed dailyto toxic air—often without their knowledge.
The Bleed Air Problem: Expert Insight from the Aerotoxic Association
Organizations like the Aerotoxic Association have been tirelessly working to expose the dangers of cabin air contamination. They explain:
"Bleed air comes from the compressor section of the jet engine, which has to be lubricated. Jet engines mostly have 'wet seals' to keep the oil and air apart, which cannot be 100% effective… These seals wear out over time or may fail suddenly, allowing significant amounts of oil to enter the hot compressed bleed air, resulting in fumes or smoke entering the cabin—a situation known as a ‘fume event.’”
Importantly, they add:
“There are no filters in the bleed air supply to stop this from happening.”
Jet engine oil is no ordinary lubricant. It's made from synthetic chemicals, specifically designed to withstand extreme temperatures. These oils:
Are not petroleum-based
Contain organophosphates and aromatic hydrocarbons
Can become chemically altered (pyrolyzed) at high temperatures, forming even more toxic byproducts**
Cabin Air Filtration | Pall Corporation
Learn how cabin air filtration works and why it's crucial for clean and fresh air. Discover our advanced cabin air filters.
www.pall.co.in
HEPA Filters & Carbon Filters for Cabin Air - APC Filtration Inc.
HEPA filters help stop the spread of COVID-19 in confined spaces like airplanes. HEPA filters are used to capture small airborne particles.
www.apcfilters.com
So, some meditating whack-a-doodle with a holistic health nutter site claims differently. Who you are you going to believe, the whack-a-doodle with a website and Facebook page with about 3000 followers, or the people that actually install and maintain the air filtration systems on commercial aircraft?
Here's the author of that article's web site:
GreenMedInfo | Alternative Medicine | Vitamin Research | Natural
GreenMedInfo.com Is The World's Most Widely-Cited, Open-Access, Evidence-Based Natural Health Resource With 100,000+ Articles!
greenmedinfo.com
Scott
Verified User
Not exactly a good way to start a response to someone who clearly thought the author who wrote the article was good -.-
Are you saying Sayer, the author you so like to call various names, has suggested otherwise? For the audience, I haven't seen Sayer deny Gardner's claim. He -also- says the following:
**
In the 1950s, engineers designed aircraft that drew fresh, filtered air from outside the plane. However, this safer method was abandoned in favor of cost-cutting measures. The decision-makers deemed the engineering changes too expensive to implement. As a result, the aviation industry adopted and standardized a design that would expose every crew member and passenger to potentially contaminated air—by design, not accident.1
**
Continuing from the article:
**
What You're Breathing: A Toxic Mix of Airborne Chemicals
Today, the air you breathe on board consists of a 50/50 blend of recirculated cabin air and bleed air. While the recirculated portion may be filtered, the bleed air is not—and it can contain a wide spectrum of synthetic and neurotoxic chemicals, including:- Tricresyl phosphate (TCP or TOCP) — an organophosphate linked to severe neurological damage.
**
From there, members of the audience can continue the article from the post Gardner was responding to, or perhaps better yet, just take a look at the entire article, which is here:
“Asbestos of the Sky” - The Aviation Industry’s Darkest Coverup
Exposing the hidden epidemic of toxic cabin air and the silenced truths haunting modern aviation.
sayerji.substack.com
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Sayer Ji is an idiot. The guy has a BA in something not related to medicine or chemistry. He's an anti-vaxxer even though he usually sluffs that off as not the case, and basically has zero background in this sort of stuff.
Are you saying Sayer, the author you so like to call various names, has suggested otherwise? For the audience, I haven't seen Sayer deny Gardner's claim. He -also- says the following:
**
In the 1950s, engineers designed aircraft that drew fresh, filtered air from outside the plane. However, this safer method was abandoned in favor of cost-cutting measures. The decision-makers deemed the engineering changes too expensive to implement. As a result, the aviation industry adopted and standardized a design that would expose every crew member and passenger to potentially contaminated air—by design, not accident.1
**
Continuing from the article:
**
What You're Breathing: A Toxic Mix of Airborne Chemicals
Today, the air you breathe on board consists of a 50/50 blend of recirculated cabin air and bleed air. While the recirculated portion may be filtered, the bleed air is not—and it can contain a wide spectrum of synthetic and neurotoxic chemicals, including:
The World Health Organization sounded the alarm as early as 1990, stating:
- Tricresyl phosphate (TCP or TOCP) — an organophosphate linked to severe neurological damage.
**
From there, members of the audience can continue the article from the post Gardner was responding to, or perhaps better yet, just take a look at the entire article, which is here:
“Asbestos of the Sky” - The Aviation Industry’s Darkest Coverup
Exposing the hidden epidemic of toxic cabin air and the silenced truths haunting modern aviation.
You and Sayer clearly have zero idea how bleed air in a turbofan engine works. Bleed air is taken from the bypass section of the compressor and isn't exposed to any lubricants or such as it never actually enters the engine.
In that picture, bleed air is in blue. In addition to being used for such things as cabin air, it is the main source of thrust for the plane.
So, you have an organic food nutter, Zen Buddhist, and basic holistic whack-a-doodle making claims about aircraft cabin air that are insane.
The FAA says he's a nutter by way of their regulations on cabin air.
Airbus says what the FAA says.
Cabin air quality - key to a comfortable flight
On aircraft, cabin air quality contributes significantly to the comfort and well being of passengers and crews alike. But what is actually cabin air quality, what is the importance attributed to cabin air quality in aircraft design and operation, and what is Airbus doing to preserve good air...
aircraft.airbus.com
The IATA says Sayer is full of shit.
Cabin Air & Low Risk of On Board Transmission
The risk of contracting COVID-19 on board is low because of a number of factors including seating position, seat backs, high airflow rate, and frequent air exchange.
www.iata.org
For all intents, every expert, engineer, and aircraft safety expert says Sayer is full of shit.
Scott
Verified User
Sayer Ji is an idiot.Not exactly a good way to start a response to someone who clearly thought the author who wrote the article was good -.-Whoever wrote that article is an idiot.I definitely think it's a shame, especially considering it's the only commercial aircraft I know that doesn't play the toxic air lottery:
“Asbestos of the Sky” - The Aviation Industry’s Darkest Coverup
Exposing the hidden epidemic of toxic cabin air and the silenced truths haunting modern aviation.
Here’s an excerpt from the article:
**Flying the Toxic Skies: A Daily Global Risk
The only commercial aircraft that does not use bleed air is the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, which employs electrically powered compressors to bring in outside, non-engine-derived air. Unfortunately, Boeing 787s make up less than 5% of global commercial flights.
With approximately 100,000 flights occurring daily worldwide, and estimates suggesting that at least 1 in every 100 flights experiences a significant "fume event", this means millions of passengers and crew are being exposed dailyto toxic air—often without their knowledge.
The Bleed Air Problem: Expert Insight from the Aerotoxic Association
Organizations like the Aerotoxic Association have been tirelessly working to expose the dangers of cabin air contamination. They explain:
"Bleed air comes from the compressor section of the jet engine, which has to be lubricated. Jet engines mostly have 'wet seals' to keep the oil and air apart, which cannot be 100% effective… These seals wear out over time or may fail suddenly, allowing significant amounts of oil to enter the hot compressed bleed air, resulting in fumes or smoke entering the cabin—a situation known as a ‘fume event.’”
Importantly, they add:
“There are no filters in the bleed air supply to stop this from happening.”
Jet engine oil is no ordinary lubricant. It's made from synthetic chemicals, specifically designed to withstand extreme temperatures. These oils:
Are not petroleum-based
Contain organophosphates and aromatic hydrocarbons
Can become chemically altered (pyrolyzed) at high temperatures, forming even more toxic byproducts**
There you go again, insulting a guy I respect- like I said in my previous post, not exactly a good way to start a response with someone. I've noticed that you've said some more things after this, but I'm wondering if it's worth my time. First impressions matter- you might want to work on your intros.
PLANES OF LEGEND
@PlanesOfLegend
Air india B787 .Some people think they hear the characteristic sound of a RAT (Ram Air Turbine, hydraulic emergency pump) being deployed at the beginning of the crash video, and I agree.
@PlanesOfLegend
Air india B787 .Some people think they hear the characteristic sound of a RAT (Ram Air Turbine, hydraulic emergency pump) being deployed at the beginning of the crash video, and I agree.
Scott
Verified User
Boeing certainly has its flaws. I just hope that their innovation in the 787 in regards to air quality doesn't go unnoticed.
The problem here is they were supposed to self regulate, and instead they mostly maximized dividends. It was not long term thinking.
Scott
Verified User
I can certainly agree with you there. From what I understand, corporations these days tend to gravitate towards short term gain at the expense of long term stability. I saw a documentary a while back on corporations titled "The Corporation" that I think is quite good. It was done over 20 years ago, but I think its conclusions on corporations still apply today. Here's the trailer:
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Okay, you respect him, I don't get over it.
Scott
Verified User
What do you mean by "I don't get over it"?
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
I punctuated it wrong, sorry. It should read: Okay, you respect him. I don't. Get over it.
serendipity
Verified User
You and McMoonshi'ite are a matched pair, truly nauseating.
Scott
Verified User
Ah, got it. It's one thing to not respect someone, but it's another to insult them in every post, and the first thing too. It made me feel that your main goal was insulting him, not actually debating the veracity of his claim.
Scott
Verified User
Air India flight, carrying 242 people, crashes on takeoff from Ahmedabad
Flight 171 was bound for Gatwick Airport, authorities in London confirmed, as search and rescue teams deployed.
seredipity just started a thread with a theory as to why the 787 crashed that looks pretty solid to me:
He thinks that the co-pilot got confused and pulled the flaps lever instead of retracting the undercarriage by mistake.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Expert's theory on simple mistake he thinks Air India co-pilot made
Commercial airline pilot and YouTuber Captain Steve, who analyzes plane crashes and close calls, gave his theory on the incident which killed 241 people on board.
