Birthright Citizenship is Secure

[Into the Night]

The point here is that the decision rendered is the only possible decision. When the issue goes to SCOTUS, they will only be able to declare that infringing on the inalienable right of US citizenship by birth, even on said right of children of illegal immigrants, is unconstitutional.

Specify.

 

[IBDaMann]

Specify.

Help me out. How can I specify any more than I already have?

 

[Into the Night]

Help me out. How can I specify any more than I already have?

Vague claims won't work. You need to specify how a district or an appeals court has any authority to write law or affect anyone but the plaintiff and defendant.

You need to specify what part of the constitution was violated and how a district court or its appeals court has any authority over the entire country.

You need to specify how any court has authority over the President's authority of the executive branch of government.

You need to specify how an illegal alien, who is an invader in the United States, can somehow obtain citizenship for offspring or for themselves.

 

[IBDaMann]

Vague claims won't work.

You and I are in total agreement.

You need to specify how a district or an appeals court has any authority to write law or affect anyone but the plaintiff and defendant.

It doesn't. On that point you are completely correct. I am speaking only to the decision that Trump's executive order is unconstitutional. Every such case coming before any court can only conclude that denial of birthright citizenship, outside of the already decided two situations, is unconstitutional.

You need to specify what part of the constitution was violated

We the People hold dearest the doctrine of inalienable rights that are endowed by our Creator and that preceed the Constitution. The Constitution is not an all-inclusive list of those inalienable rights, but "birthright citizenship" is spelled out in the 14th Amendment. When someone is born in the US, there is no calculus involving parentage. Nobody can be penalized for crimes or infractions of someone else and no one shall be stripped of his inalienable rights.

The above is what is being violated.

and how a district court or its appeals court has any authority over the entire country.

It does not. You are absolutely of the correct position.

You need to specify how any court has authority over the President's authority of the executive branch of government.

The Judicial branch serves its role in checks and balances, and when the Executive branch violates the Constitution, the judicial branch stands as the check. Donald Trump's executive order violates the Constitution; the Judicial branch is the correct branch to correct that.

Your objection is perfectly valid in such cases where some court, which has no executive power, simply pretends to intervene in executive actions that do not violate the Constitution. If Trump sees fit to deport someone after having provided due process, no court has any authority to halt that deportation.

You need to specify how [someone other than the perons in question], who is an invader in the United States, can somehow obtain citizenship for offspring or for themselves.

Let me know when you wish to discuss the person who is born in the US and not someone else. Until then, nobody can obtain citizenship for anyone else, and only one's Creator can bestow inalienable rights.

[note: "for offspring or for himself"]

 

[Into the Night]

You and I are in total agreement.


It doesn't. On that point you are completely correct. I am speaking only to the decision that Trump's executive order is unconstitutional. Every such case coming before any court can only conclude that denial of birthright citizenship, outside of the already decided two situations, is unconstitutional.

The decision is unconstitutional by the simple fact that the court has no authority here.

We the People hold dearest the doctrine of inalienable rights that are endowed by our Creator and that preceed the Constitution. The Constitution is not an all-inclusive list of those inalienable rights, but "birthright citizenship" is spelled out in the 14th Amendment. When someone is born in the US, there is no calculus involving parentage. Nobody can be penalized for crimes or infractions of someone else and no one shall be stripped of his inalienable rights.

I never said the Constitution provides ANY rights, or that the rights it discusses are a complete list. Don't put words in my mouth.
Illegal aliens have NO right to remain the United States. Neither do their offspring. Offspring can easily be deported with their mother.

The above is what is being violated.

Rights are not the Constitution. You named the Constitution. Don't evade. Specify.

It does not. You are absolutely of the correct position.

Yet earlier in this very post you state the opposite. Which is it, dude?

The Judicial branch serves its role in checks and balances, and when the Executive branch violates the Constitution, the judicial branch stands as the check. Donald Trump's executive order violates the Constitution; the Judicial branch is the correct branch to correct that.

No court has ANY authority over Trump's authority of the executive branch. Again you make a vague claim. Specify.

Your objection is perfectly valid in such cases where some court, which has no executive power, simply pretends to intervene in executive actions that do not violate the Constitution. If Trump sees fit to deport someone after having provided due process, no court has any authority to halt that deportation.

No hearing of any kind is required to deport someone.
They CAN be used to determine where they should be deported.
They CAN be used to determine if you have someone that is an illegal alien or a citizen.
Indeed, Alligator Alcatraz was set up for these purposes. It's a staging area for those about to be deported and where they receive their hearings (if any are required).

If the border patrol sees an llegal crossing, such illegal aliens can be IMMEDIATELY deported. If a court of law has already identified an illegal alien, no further hearing is necessary. They can be IMMEDIATELY deported.

Let me know when you wish to discuss the person who is born in the US and not someone else.

I already am. The offspring of an illegal alien is not a citizen of the United States.

Until then, nobody can obtain citizenship for anyone else, and only one's Creator can bestow inalienable rights.

That's Sovereign Citizen type chanting. It won't fly.

 

[IBDaMann]

The decision is unconstitutional by the simple fact that the court has no authority here.

Wrong wording. The decision is correct, not unconstitutional. Your complaint is that the decision was given weight and allowed to injunct the Presidency, and you point to the lack of authority. That is the wording you should use. The court's decision should carry as much weight as my own very constitutional decision that Trump's executive order is unconstitutional, i.e. no weight whatsoever.

The Supreme Court, however, will have the necessary authority to provide the appropriate check.

I never said the Constitution provides ANY rights,

Correct.

or that the rights it discusses are a complete list.

Correct.

Don't put words in my mouth.

No words were put into your mouth.

Illegal aliens have NO right to remain the United States.

Correct.

Neither do their offspring.

Hold on there. You need to specify. Vague statements won't work. Were these "offspring" born in the US?

Offspring can easily be deported with their mother.

US citizens who are minors can certainly travel with their parents. Sure. They also have a right to remain in the US. They are citizens, after all.

Rights are not the Constitution. You named the Constitution. Don't evade. Specify.

Perhaps you need a primer on the Constitution. I'm more than happy to provide such.

Lesson #1. Inalienable rights absolutely can be mentioned in the Constitution. Let me know if you have any questions.

Yet earlier in this very post you state the opposite. Which is it, dude?

I have never stated that inalienable rights cannot be mentioned in the Constitution.

No court has ANY authority over Trump's authority of the executive branch.

Correct.

Again you make a vague claim. Specify.

Include the "vague claim" in question and I'll be happy to address it.

No hearing of any kind is required to deport someone.

Due process is required. Once due process has been administered, nothing further is required.

They CAN be used to determine where they should be deported.

Sure.

They CAN be used to determine if you have someone that is an illegal alien or a citizen.

Sure.

Indeed, Alligator Alcatraz was set up for these purposes. It's a staging area for those about to be deported and where they receive their hearings (if any are required).

If the border patrol sees an llegal crossing, such illegal aliens can be IMMEDIATELY deported. If a court of law has already identified an illegal alien, no further hearing is necessary. They can be IMMEDIATELY deported.

Sure, but you are lying by omission.

Suppose that I, an American citizen by birth, take a short-cut to reenter the US, without showing any ID to anyone. Now, take it from here. How can I be immediately deported ... and to where?

The offspring of an illegal alien is not a citizen of the United States.

Vague statements will not work. Was the offspring born in the US? If so, then you are incorrect.

That's Sovereign Citizen type chanting. It won't fly.

Nope. I have not chanted. I also admit to not being able to fly in the first place.

 

[Into the Night]

Wrong wording. The decision is correct, not unconstitutional. Your complaint is that the decision was given weight and allowed to injunct the Presidency, and you point to the lack of authority. That is the wording you should use. The court's decision should carry as much weight as my own very constitutional decision that Trump's executive order is unconstitutional, i.e. no weight whatsoever.

The Supreme Court, however, will have the necessary authority to provide the appropriate check.

Nope. The Supreme Court cannot revoke Trump's authority of the executive branch either.

Hold on there. You need to specify. Vague statements won't work. Were these "offspring" born in the US?

Yes. Makes no difference.

US citizens who are minors can certainly travel with their parents.

They are not citizens.

Sure. They also have a right to remain in the US. They are citizens, after all.

They are not citizens.

Perhaps you need a primer on the Constitution. I'm more than happy to provide such.

Vague statements don't work. Specify.

Lesson #1. Inalienable rights absolutely can be mentioned in the Constitution. Let me know if you have any questions.

So? Never said otherwise. Don't put words in my mouth.

I have never stated that inalienable rights cannot be mentioned in the Constitution.

I never stated otherwise.

Include the "vague claim" in question and I'll be happy to address it.

RQAA

Due process is required.

No, it isn't. An illegal alien can be deported IMMEDIATELY. No hearing. No trial. Nothing.

Once due process has been administered, nothing further is required.

No hearing or trial is required.

Sure, but you are lying by omission.

Specify.

Suppose that I, an American citizen by birth, take a short-cut to reenter the US, without showing any ID to anyone. Now, take it from here. How can I be immediately deported ... and to where?

Then you have violated law and can be arrested. You can also be immediately deported back to the country you entered from.

Vague statements will not work. Was the offspring born in the US? If so, then you are incorrect.

RQAA. Void argument fallacy. Specify.

Nope. I have not chanted.

Don't try to deny your own posts.

I also admit to not being able to fly in the first place.

Word games won't help you.

 

[IBDaMann]

Nope. The Supreme Court cannot revoke Trump's authority of the executive branch either.

SCOTUS absolutely can revoke Trump's unconstitutional executive order.

Yes. Makes no difference.

It makes all the difference. If they are born in the US then they are citizens and have an inalienable right to stay.

They are not citizens.

They are citizens.

They are not citizens.

They are citizens.

Vague statements don't work. Specify.

RQAA

No, it isn't. An illegal alien can be deported IMMEDIATELY. No hearing. No trial. Nothing.

Incorrect. The US government must afford all due process.

No hearing or trial is required.

Due process might consist of verifying illegal status.

Then you have violated law and can be arrested.

Yes, go on ...

You can also be immediately deported back to the country you entered from.

Nope. You are incorrect. I cannot be deported anywhere ever. You are operating under a strange misconception.

 

[Into the Night]

SCOTUS absolutely can revoke Trump's unconstitutional executive order.

SCOTUS has no authority to remove or revoke Trump's authority of the executive branch. Trump's authority over the executive branch is stated in the Constitution in Article II.

It makes all the difference. If they are born in the US then they are citizens and have an inalienable right to stay.

NO difference. The offspring of illegal aliens are NOT citizens.

Incorrect. The US government must afford all due process.

Illegal aliens can be deported immediately with out any trial or hearing.

Due process might consist of verifying illegal status.

You do not need to verify they crossed illegally when you see them cross illegally, are caught on other charges and their illegal status is revealed, etc.

Nope. You are incorrect. I cannot be deported anywhere ever. You are operating under a strange misconception.

Yes you can. You can be deported back to the nation you crossed into the United States illegally from.
You must re-enter the United States at a port of entry and go through customs.

IF you have proof of citizenship, you will be arrested instead.

Evading customs is a felony.

 

[IBDaMann]

SCOTUS has no authority to remove or revoke Trump's authority of the executive branch.

Correct.

Trump's authority over the executive branch is stated in the Constitution in Article II.

Yes. I have posted that text several times.

NO difference. The offspring of illegal aliens are NOT citizens.

Apparently you have difficulty reading the 14th Amendment.

Illegal aliens can be deported immediately with out any trial or hearing.

The determination of "Illegal Alien" requires due process. All are entitled to due process of law. No person shall not be afforded due process of law.

Amendment V
... nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

You do not need to verify they crossed illegally when you see them cross illegally, are caught on other charges and their illegal status is revealed, etc.

There is no specified limit to how quickly the due process of law can be accomplished, but it must be accomplished ... for all people.

Yes you can. You can be deported back to the nation you crossed into the United States illegally from.

Nope. You are simply mistaken. Only aliens may be deported, and 8 U.S.C. § 1227 specifies which aliens are deportable.

You must re-enter the United States at a port of entry and go through customs.

Citizens who violate this may be arrested and/or fined. Citizens without ID cannot be deported.

 

[Into the Night]

Correct.


Yes. I have posted that text several times.

Contradicting yourself won't work.

Apparently you have difficulty reading the 14th Amendment.

What about it?

The determination of "Illegal Alien" requires due process.

Nope. NONE REQUIRED.

All are entitled to due process of law.

Nope. NONE REQUIRED.

No person shall not be afforded due process of law.

No hearing or trial is necessary to deport an illegal alien.

Amendment V
... nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

Illegal aliens are not being deprived of life, liberty, or property. They are being deported. Being an illegal alien is not a capital or imfamous crrime, does not require a Grand Jury. You cannot take the 5th amendment out of context and use it that way!

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

There is no specified limit to how quickly the due process of law can be accomplished, but it must be accomplished ... for all people.

Nope. NONE REQUIRED. They can be deported immediately without any trial or hearing.

Nope. You are simply mistaken. Only aliens may be deported, and 8 U.S.C. § 1227 specifies which aliens are deportable.

Contextomy fallacy. Evading customs is a felony, and if you are identified as a citizen will be arrested. If not, you will be deported back to the nation you illegal entered from.

Citizens who violate this may be arrested and/or fined. Citizens without ID cannot be deported.

YES THEY CAN.