Bill Moyers – Bring back the draft, or end the war!

WinterBorn said:
Quite a few. Comparing yourself to the Founding Fathers?
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I compare myself all of the time, so why not SM. I think such comparisons, in a philosophical light, can be very good for the individual. That said, SM is likely not doing that...

My favorite FF did not serve (Adams), although he did tend to guilt-trip over that fact in his journals. One reason why he overworked himself in the Continental Congress was to try and share the hardships of the soldiers, and he also worked particularly on committees that could help the troops by securing food, medicine, and equipment for them.
 
WinterBorn said:
That someone chooses not to join the military is not necessarily a bad thing.

But to choose not to go into the military and then later talk about the glories of war, talk about looking forward to a civil war, and to demean those who did serve is the height of hypocracy and cowardice.
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Nice souther idiot burn:good4u:
 
CaptBillyTheKid said:
A conflict is not the only reason for one to join the military. It certainly wasn't mine.
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That's true but I do have to defend SM here. We are of about the same age. I came of military age a scant few years after the end of Vietnam. Our millitary was a mess after the Carter years. It's mission was not well defined and more importantly it had lost moral. The enlisted ranks were filled with societies rejects and the ranks were infested with drugs. I'm well aware that most of the young men of that age going into military service volunteered because a Judge gave them that choice or prison. Beween this and the lack of trust in a government that had out right lied and misled our nation about the Vietnam war, I had no inclination to volunteer when I came out of high school.
 
Damocles said:
Because it would make it more unpopular and more like Viet Nam.
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I don't know about the Vietnam crack, apples to oranges, but it would make the war more unpopular because those who oppose the war would have to watch their children die for a cause they don't believe in. It would also force more accountability upon our government concerning this war. As a Libertarian is this not something you believe in? Don't you believe in Washington's and Eisenhower's warnings on standing armies and the military industrial complex?

If this present war stands on solid moral grounds then implementing the draft should not be an issue.
 
Southern Man said:
This is one instance where I agree with Democrats, but of course for different reasons. Democrats hate the military and think that this will damage it and make it unpopular with Americans.

I'd like to see all young men and woman be drafted to commit 2 years to the military, and put them all through boot camp. Those that fail can join the Peace Corps, work in shelters for the homeless, work on WPA type projects, or cook, clean, and provide support for the troops. Only the best would be considered for combat related services, and then they'd have to volunteer for it.
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Democrats hate the military? LOL That's hillariouis, the real fact is, there are no true Republicans in foxholes.
 
Southern Man said:
This is one instance where I agree with Democrats, but of course for different reasons. Democrats hate the military and think that this will damage it and make it unpopular with Americans.

I'd like to see all young men and woman be drafted to commit 2 years to the military, and put them all through boot camp. Those that fail can join the Peace Corps, work in shelters for the homeless, work on WPA type projects, or cook, clean, and provide support for the troops. Only the best would be considered for combat related services, and then they'd have to volunteer for it.
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BTW, you don't know much about the Peace Corp, do you? First, it's an NGO. Second, there quite selective. If you can't make it through boot camp, I doubt you'd be accepted by the Peace Corp. Third, you must have at least a college education to be considered by the Peace Corp.
 
WinterBorn said:
That someone chooses not to join the military is not necessarily a bad thing.

But to choose not to go into the military and then later talk about the glories of war, talk about looking forward to a civil war, and to demean those who did serve is the height of hypocracy and cowardice.
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I believe they coined a term for those kind of people. "Chickenhawk"
 
Damocles said:
Desertion is not the same thing as rebellion.
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Those who fled to Canada were not deserters. They had not been inducted yet. In this case, I'd say yes the Vietnam draft dodgers were patriots. They acted upon their conscience in regards to an immoral war which is why they were later granted amnesty.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's not my understanding. Conventional understanding is that our troops are over deployed.
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We have PLENTY of troops that have never deployed before. The reason we stared such huge recruitment goals during the Iraq conflict was so you could have a dwell time of 2-1. Well the problem is we keep deploying the same people(generalization).

As for your earlier post about not serving after Vietnam, I was not attacking SM for his lack of military service, merely pointing out that a conflict is not the only reason to join. One does not need to serve in the military or indeed any level of government to be a patriot.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Those who fled to Canada were not deserters. They had not been inducted yet. In this case, I'd say yes the Vietnam draft dodgers were patriots. They acted upon their conscience in regards to an immoral war which is why they were later granted amnesty.
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I'll disagree. While they have every right to oppose the war, there are plenty of other options to get out of being drafted.
 
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