Biden to eliminate oil and gas by 2035

just barking out fallacies without explaining why what I stated was a fallacy is of no value.
I just did. RQAA.
You are just avoiding the topic
Inversion fallacy. That would be you. You are describing yourself.
Just accusing me of making fallacies without pointing out what in the post was a fallacy and why is no value.
I just did. RQAA.
If you want a magical conversation you're going to have to be better if you just want to bark fallacy to avoid conversation then I guess well done.
You aren't having a conversation. Void argument fallacy. If you want to avoid me calling you out on your fallacies, stop making them.
 
At least we agree on that.

Not good enough. Water is harmful and poisonous. See the drowning statistics, and the accident statistics caused by snow and ice on the roadways every winter. Oxygen is harmful and poisonous in certain circumstances. See the Apollo 1 mission and statistics concerning welding accidents caused by oxygen tanks. Trees are harmful and have poisonous effects. See the accident statistics of lumberjacks and the problems of drinking wood alcohol. Grass is harmful. See the accident statistics of lawnmower accidents, composting fires, or deaths and injuries caused by hay falling off of trucks. By this definition, EVERYTHING is a pollutant.

No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth. Carbon dioxide is not a Magick Holy Gas that somehow is an exception to this. You can't create energy out of nothing.

Void argument fallacy. You are going to have to be more specific and define 'pollution' better.

What are you trading off? Void argument fallacy. Buzzword fallacy.

I assume you mean 'coal'. :D Mining coal, like any other activity, has costs associated with it. The cost of the equipment, the personnel, the real estate, etc. Here you fall into another buzzword, 'impact'. You have to define 'impact' and why it is undesirable. Remember, 'undesirable' is a subjective word, with little meaning other than an emotional one. Is moving a mountain undesirable? Is digging a hole undesirable? Is pumping water out of a mine undesirable?

There's that buzzword again. Void argument fallacy. Buzzword fallacy.


Word salad. Define 'environment'. Define 'impact' and why it is undesirable. Define 'getting the most out of it'. There are no fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.

Your post has a LOT of undefined terms and buzzwords. It fails to define 'pollution' in any kind of sensible way, and thus 'pollution' remains undefined. This is the usual nonsensical rantings of scripture from the Church of Green.

Sematic fallacies, and argument from fallacy.

If common usage of a word is not specific enough for you you need to Define it I'm using it to describe it common usage.

And you continually make an argument from fallacy. Suggesting just because there is a fallacy the argument is void.

for someone who accuses people of fallacies very often it's a bit hypocritical of you to make them repeatedly.
 
I just did. RQAA.

Inversion fallacy. That would be you. You are describing yourself.

I just did. RQAA.

You aren't having a conversation. Void argument fallacy. If you want to avoid me calling you out on your fallacies, stop making them.

This is all argument form fallacy. And y you're just saying there's fallacies so you don't have to address the points that are too difficult for you.
 
Nope. Not possible. It is not possible to trap heat. Heat has no temperature.
You can't trap thermal energy. There is always heat.
You can't trap light. The only way for Earth to lose energy is to space. That can only be done by light. Everything above absolute zero radiates light (in other words, everything). See the Stefan-Boltzmann law: r=C*e*t^4
You can't use a colder gas to heat a warmer surface. See the 2nd law of thermodynamics: e(t+1)>e(t)
You can't create energy out of nothing. See the 1st law of thermodynamics: E(t+1)=E(t)-U

There is a simple and obvious proof you are wrong in your kitchen. It's called an oven it reduces the rate at which heat escapes from it to a point where it can stay much hotter than the room it is in, at least while you continue to add energy to make up for what loss there is. It may take hours to cool off to room temperature, but it was hotter than room temperature.

Contrails, theoretically CO2 and CH4 as well, act as insulators to warm the planet and will do so if they are increasing and the energy in (from the sun etc.) remains constant. They trap heat just like an oven and slow it's dissipation back into space.
 
Sematic fallacies, and argument from fallacy.
Fallacy fallacies. Inversion fallacy.
If common usage of a word is not specific enough for you you need to Define it I'm using it to describe it common usage.
I am not trying to use the word 'pollution'. YOU are. I don't need to define it. Burden of proof fallacy. Define 'pollution'. I have already shown you why your previous definition is meaningless.
And you continually make an argument from fallacy. Suggesting just because there is a fallacy the argument is void.
Fallacy fallacy. A fallacy voids an argument. It is not a valid argument.
for someone who accuses people of fallacies very often it's a bit hypocritical of you to make them repeatedly.
Fallfacy fallacy. Mockery. Denial of logic.
 
There is a simple and obvious proof you are wrong in your kitchen. It's called an oven it reduces the rate at which heat escapes from it to a point where it can stay much hotter than the room it is in, at least while you continue to add energy to make up for what loss there is. It may take hours to cool off to room temperature, but it was hotter than room temperature.
Insulation does not make anything warmer. Insulation reduces heat. Putting a blanket on a rock does not make it warmer.
Contrails, theoretically CO2 and CH4 as well, act as insulators to warm the planet
CO2 actually conducts heat better than any other common gas in the atmosphere. It is not capable of warming the planet. Neither is methane.
and will do so if they are increasing and the energy in (from the sun etc.) remains constant.
Denial of the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You cannot trap light. There is no frequency term in the Stefan-Boltzmann law.
They trap heat just like an oven
It is not possible to trap heat. Ovens can't do it either.
and slow it's dissipation back into space.
Denial of of the Stefan-Boltzmann law. Denial of science. You can't slow or trap light.
 
I don’t think that’s possible, but if he could it would be awesome.

Why, what's in it for the West? The only beneficiaries are China and India. The entry of China into the WTO on the 11th December 2001 was a calamity, So now you want to finish off the job, how does that make any possible sense?
 
Last edited:
Fallacy fallacies. Inversion fallacy.

I am not trying to use the word 'pollution'. YOU are. I don't need to define it. Burden of proof fallacy. Define 'pollution'. I have already shown you why your previous definition is meaningless.

Fallacy fallacy. A fallacy voids an argument. It is not a valid argument.

Fallfacy fallacy. Mockery. Denial of logic.

Argument from fallacy.
 
There is a simple and obvious proof you are wrong in your kitchen. It's called an oven it reduces the rate at which heat escapes from it to a point where it can stay much hotter than the room it is in, at least while you continue to add energy to make up for what loss there is. It may take hours to cool off to room temperature, but it was hotter than room temperature.

Contrails, theoretically CO2 and CH4 as well, act as insulators to warm the planet and will do so if they are increasing and the energy in (from the sun etc.) remains constant. They trap heat just like an oven and slow it's dissipation back into space.

He doesn't understand thermodynamics, tried to explain it to him but it never sinks in.

A surprising result of their study is that the earth’s natural greenhouse effect – from the greenhouse gases already present in Earth’s preindustrial atmosphere, without any extra CO2 – warms the planet by a staggering 90 degrees Celsius. This is far in excess of the textbook value of 33 degrees Celsius, or the 18 degrees Celsius calculated by Denis Rancourt and discussed in my previous post. The 90 degrees Celsius result, however, is the same as that derived in a 2014 paper on the natural greenhouse effect, using an analytic model unrelated to the dimensional analysis of Nikolov and Zeller.

Needless to say, Nikolov and Zeller’s work has been heavily criticized by climate change alarmists and skeptics alike. Skeptical climate scientist Roy Spencer, who has a PhD in meteorology, argues that compression of the atmosphere can’t explain greenhouse heating, because Earth’s average surface temperature is determined not by air pressure, but by the rates at which energy is gained or lost by the surface.

Spencer argues that, if atmospheric pressure causes the lower troposphere (the lowest layer of the atmosphere) to be warmer than the upper troposphere, then the same should be true of the stratosphere, where the pressure at the bottom of the stratosphere is about 100 times larger than that at the top. Yet the bottom of the stratosphere is cooler than the top.

In a reply, Nikolov and Zeller fail to address Spencer’s stratosphere argument, but attempt to defend their work by claiming incorrectly that Spencer ignores the role of adiabatic processes and focuses instead on diabatic radiative processes. Adiabatic processes alter the temperature of a gaseous system without any exchange of heat energy with its surroundings.

The second paper rejecting the greenhouse effect was published in 2009 by German physicists Gerhard Gerlich and Ralf Tscheuschner. They claim that the radiative mechanisms of the greenhouse effect – the absorption of solar shortwave radiation and emission of longwave radiation, which together trap enough of the sun’s heat to make the earth habitable – are fictitious and violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

The Second Law forbids the flow of heat energy from a cold region (the atmosphere) to a warmer one (the earth’s surface) without supplying additional energy in the form of external work. However, as other authors point out, the Second Law is not contravened by the greenhouse effect because external energy is provided by downward solar shortwave radiation, which passes through the atmosphere without being absorbed. The greenhouse effect arises from downward emission from the atmosphere of radiation previously emitted upward from the earth.


Furthermore, there’s a net upward transfer of heat energy from the warmer surface to the colder atmosphere when all energy flows are taken into account, including non-radiative convection and latent heat transfer associated with water vapor. Gerlich and Tscheuschner mistakenly insist that heat and energy are separate quantities.

Both of these farfetched claims that the greenhouse effect doesn’t exist therefore stem from misunderstandings about energy.

https://www.scienceunderattack.com/...hesis-3-the-greenhouse-effect-doesnt-exist-58

https://arxiv.org/abs/0707.1161
 
Last edited:
.
There are just so many clueless people in the US and UK, I guess you'll find out the hard way that electric cars are just another expensive chimera.

Electric cars are good fun for wealthy virtue signallers, but a dreadful way to save the planet
Banning petrol and diesel vehicles would deliver only minor emissions savings at a vast cost to the taxpayer

Electric cars are certainly fun, but almost everywhere cost more across their lifetime than their petrol counterparts. That is why subsidies are needed. And consumers are still anxious because of their short range and long recharging times. Despite the US handing out up to $10,000 (£7,600) for each electric car, for example, fewer than 0.5 per cent of its cars are battery electric. And almost all the support goes to the rich. Ninety per cent of electric car owners also have a fossil-fuel driven car they drive further. Indeed, electric vehicles are mostly a “second car” used for shorter trips and virtue signalling.

If you subsidise electric cars enough, people will buy them. Almost 10 per cent of all Norway’s passenger cars are now electric because of generous policies that waive most costs. Over its lifetime, a £23,000 car might receive benefits worth more than £20,000. But this approach is unsustainable for most nations. Even Norway is starting to worry, losing more than a billion euros a year from exempt drivers.

Innovation will eventually make electric cars economical even without subsidies, but concerns over range and slow recharging will remain. That is why most scientific prognoses show that electric cars will not take over the world. A new study shows that by 2030, just 13 per cent of new cars will be battery-electric. If Johnson bans new petrol cars by then, he would essentially forbid 87 per cent of consumers from buying the cars they want. It is hard to imagine that could be politically viable.

The International Energy Agency estimates that by 2030, if all countries live up to their promises, the world will have 140 million electric cars on the road. Yet, this would not make a significant impact on emissions for two reasons. First, electric cars require large batteries, often produced in China using coal power. Just producing the battery for an electric car can emit almost as much as a quarter of the greenhouse gasses emitted from a petrol car across its entire lifetime.

Second, the electric car is recharged on electricity that almost everywhere is significantly fossil-fuel based. Together, this means that a long-range electric car will emit more CO2 for its first 60,000km than a petrol car. This is why having a second electric car for short trips could mean higher overall emissions. Comparing electric and petrol, the International Energy Agency estimates the electric car will save six tons of CO2 over its lifetime, assuming global average electricity emissions. Even if the electric car has a short range and its battery is made in Europe mostly using renewable energy, its savings will be at most 10 tons.

To use America as an example, if Biden restores the full electric car tax credit, he will essentially pay £5,700 to reduce emissions by at most 10 tons. Yet, he can get US power producers to cut 10 tons for just £45. Indeed, if the whole world follows through and gets to 140 million electric cars by 2030, the IEA estimates it will reduce emissions by just 190 million tonnes of CO2 – a mere 0.4 per cent of global emissions.

We need a reality check. First, politicians should stop writing huge cheques just because they believe electric cars are a major climate solution. Second, there is a simpler solution. The hybrid car saves about the same amount of CO2 as an electric car over its lifetime. Third, climate change doesn’t care about where CO2 comes from. Personal cars are only about 7 per cent of global emissions, and electric cars will only help a little.

Right now, electric car subsidies are something wealthy countries can afford to give elites to show virtue. But if we want to fix the climate, we need to focus on the big emitters and drive innovation to create better low-CO2 energy from fusion, fission, geothermal, wind, and solar. Innovations that will make just one of them cheaper than fossil fuels would mean not just rich Londoners changing their habits, but everyone, including China and India, switching large parts of their energy consumption toward zero emissions.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/17/dont-expect-electric-cars-save-planet/
 
Last edited:
Biden does not believe that. He wants us to put our emphasis on the energies of the future. He was talking about electric cars and solar and wind. They will replace fossil fuels when they are ready, It would be nice if they replaced fossil poison fuels by 2035. That is a good target. But there are no penalties for missing or getting it earlier.
Why is trying to end gas and oil a bad thing? They are poisons and major pollutants that make poison pits where ever they are extracted.

your delusional if you think elc cars will replace gasoline by 2035 lol they have 2 percent of the market
 
your delusional if you think elc cars will replace gasoline by 2035 lol they have 2 percent of the market

Anyone thinking that battery cars will even dominate the market is delusional. The proof is Norway. There, the government gives huge subsidies out for buying an electric / battery car. The country has charging stations everywhere. It is a much smaller nation with shorter travel distances. Yet, even with all the incentives to buy only about 40% of the market is battery cars.

There are just too many drawbacks to the battery car to make it universally popular.
 
Back
Top