Biden has neutered & emasculated Putin

Cypress said:
A complete fiasco for Putin.

The objectives for war are always political. This is universally recognized by renowned military theorists from Sun Tzu to Carl von Clausewitz.

Precariously holding a strip of land along the shores of the Sea of Azov does not even remotely justify the military, economic, political damage caused to Russia.

In February, Putin was crystal clear what the political objectives of the this war were:

- To demilitarization Ukraine. But Ukraine is better armed than ever.

- To 'denazify' Ukraine. But the government in Kyiv is still in control and has achieved a level of international legitimacy that is the complete opposite of what Putin intended.

- Deter and rollback NATO in Eastern Europe. But NATO is larger, stronger, more united than ever, and has added 800 miles of Finnish border along the Russian frontier to the alliance.
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Russia is bigger than it was. Ukraine isn't. Who is winning, do you think ?
 
moon said:
Russia is bigger than it was. Ukraine isn't. Who is winning, do you think ?
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Precariously holding a strip of land along the shores of the Sea of Azov was not how Putin was defining victory last February. Victory is defined by achieving his political goals, none of which he has even remotely come close to achieving.


"Putin Boasts of Being Able to Take Kiev in Two Weeks"

https://time.com/3259699/putin-boast-kiev-2-weeks/
 
Cypress said:
Precariously holding a strip of land along the shores of the Sea of Azov was not how Putin was defining victory last February. Victory is defined by achieving his political goals, none of which he has even remotely come close to achieving.


"Putin Boasts of Being Able to Take Kiev in Two Weeks"

https://time.com/3259699/putin-boast-kiev-2-weeks/
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Expanded borders and total control of Ukraine's ports. Utter failure. Not. Go bugle.
 
moon said:
Expanded borders and total control of Ukraine's ports. Utter failure. Not. Go bugle.
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So according to your logic, because the US military held strips of land in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan those were clear and unequivocal markers of victory.

See, I'm not as stupid as you. I have read Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz, and understand that war is just politics by another name - I am aware that victory in war is defined by achieving political objectives.

I wasn't dumb enough to think that because we held strips of land in Iraq and Afghanistan that we should all be spiking the football and doing a victory dance.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. IMO, the lesson isn't military losses, but economic. The world is teetering on a global recession due to the pandemic and Putin's war. Chinese military aggression would tip it over. Bad for everyone, but not equally bad for everyone. Xi might see himself pushed out at best, open Chinese revolt at worst.

https://www.statista.com/chart/17747/china-quarterly-gdp-growth/
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nice insights

The People's Liberation Army has not fought a major war against a well armed opponent in 70 years.

The Ukraine conflict showed us that planning, staging, and executing a major combined-arms offensive war takes a lot of operational and logistical skill, something the supposedly vaunted Russian military didn't have.

I am not going to join MAGA in leaping to the assumption that the Chinese military is a well oiled machine, a steamroller which could blitzkrieg Taiwan and raise the PRC flag over Taipei in a matter of days.

The last conflict China fought was against Vietnam, and they were essentially bested by the Vietnamese who were defending their home turf.
 
Cypress said:
So according to your logic, because the US military held strips of land in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan those were clear and unequivocal markers of victory.

See, I'm not as stupid as you. I have read Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz, and understand that war is just politics by another name - I am aware that victory in war is defined by achieving political objectives.

I wasn't dumb enough to think that because we held strips of land in Iraq and Afghanistan that we should all be spiking the football and doing a victory dance.
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Russia still holds theirs. Doh.
 
Cypress said:
nice insights

The People's Liberation Army has not fought a major war against a well armed opponent in 70 years.

The Ukraine conflict showed us that planning, staging, and executing a major combined-arms offensive war takes a lot of operational and logistical skill, something the supposedly vaunted Russian military didn't have.

I am not going to join MAGA in leaping to the assumption that the Chinese military is a well oiled machine, a steamroller which could blitzkrieg Taiwan and raise the PRC flag over Taipei in a matter of days.

The last conflict China fought was against Vietnam, and they were essentially bested by the Vietnamese who were defending their home turf.
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IMO, the main problem with the Russian military was a corrupt government gutting it to line their own pockets and then being sent into a battle they couldn't win by their insane leader. Putin is an example of autocracy at it's worst: an intelligent leader who takes over and then goes insane with disease and/or age. He overreached due to his megalomania and ended up destroying the Russian army and Russia's reputation with all modern nations.

All good points about China.

The MAGAts continue to prove they want to tear down the United States to the point of supporting our enemies to do it.
 
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