Baby killers cause Komen to cave

USFREEDOM911 said:
Somewhere in the archives of old threads, there is a post the puts all of apples beliefs into a single concept.
When pressed to point out when the newborn "fetus" becomes a human, he says it's when the birth is registered.
Then when he was asked about the births that aren't registered, such as those that occur in areas where hospitals and sometimes even doctors are few and far between, he ran away.
Click to expand...

Ran away? :lol:

Just to set the record straight the birth is the demarkation point. Of course, some people like to take it to the absurd and ask if that means the exact moment the head appeared or the moment it completely left the woman's body or the exact second the umbilical cord was cut refusing to understand that birth, like pregnancy, is a process.

Let's say someone asks what time you arrived at a store. Do you tell them the time you first entered the parking lot? The moment you entered the mall? Or the exact second you entered a particular store? If someone asks what time you had dinner do you say the time you started or the time you finished or give an answer somewhere between the two?

I occasionally wonder how anti-abortionists function on a day-to-day basis. Whether it's "eggs are chickens" or nitpicking about the exact second something occurred it must be a most unusual life.
 
apple0154 said:
Ran away? :lol:

Just to set the record straight the birth is the demarkation point. Of course, some people like to take it to the absurd and ask if that means the exact moment the head appeared or the moment it completely left the woman's body or the exact second the umbilical cord was cut refusing to understand that birth, like pregnancy, is a process.

Let's say someone asks what time you arrived at a store. Do you tell them the time you first entered the parking lot? The moment you entered the mall? Or the exact second you entered a particular store? If someone asks what time you had dinner do you say the time you started or the time you finished or give an answer somewhere between the two?

I occasionally wonder how anti-abortionists function on a day-to-day basis. Whether it's "eggs are chickens" or nitpicking about the exact second something occurred it must be a most unusual life.
Click to expand...

If someone asks what time you arrived at a store, the correct answer is what time you entered the parking lot (aka: arrived) at the store. If someone asks what time you had dinner, you say what time you sat down to "have" dinner. It's really quite simple, and the same applies with human life... it begins when a male sperm fertilizes a female egg... point of conception. This is where the process of life begins, regardless of whether you wish to accept that fact or not. Some people like to take it to the absurd and claim that something isn't actually what it is, until a predetermined point of time which they arbitrarily set, and biology refutes that in the case of human life.
 
Dixie said:
If someone asks what time you arrived at a store, the correct answer is what time you entered the parking lot (aka: arrived) at the store. If someone asks what time you had dinner, you say what time you sat down to "have" dinner. It's really quite simple, and the same applies with human life... it begins when a male sperm fertilizes a female egg... point of conception. This is where the process of life begins, regardless of whether you wish to accept that fact or not. Some people like to take it to the absurd and claim that something isn't actually what it is, until a predetermined point of time which they arbitrarily set, and biology refutes that in the case of human life.
Click to expand...


I always thought that most anti-abortion folks held that view but the kerfuffle in Mississippi with the "personhood" ballot initiative opened my eyes a little bit. It appears that there are two camps, the conception camp and the implantation camp. The former holds the view that life begins at conception while the latter holds the view that life begins at implantation. Where do you fall, Dix?
 
Dungheap said:
I always thought that most anti-abortion folks held that view but the kerfuffle in Mississippi with the "personhood" ballot initiative opened my eyes a little bit. It appears that there are two camps, the conception camp and the implantation camp. The former holds the view that life begins at conception while the latter holds the view that life begins at implantation. Where do you fall, Dix?
Click to expand...

Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop did extensive studies on conception, and he points out that at the moment conception takes place, a host of chemical reactions occur, and an organic process begins. Now I want you to remove yourself from the abortion debate, and concentrate on the details here... some process has begun, specifically, what is the process? You simply can't define this any other way, and remain honest to science and biology. It is the process of life.

From here, an argument can be made for the validity of the life, whether the process should be allowed to continue, whether the life is viable or sentient, but the question of what it is, has been settled, the question of what process, has also been settled.
 
Dixie said:
Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop did extensive studies on conception, and he points out that at the moment conception takes place, a host of chemical reactions occur, and an organic process begins. Now I want you to remove yourself from the abortion debate, and concentrate on the details here... some process has begun, specifically, what is the process? You simply can't define this any other way, and remain honest to science and biology. It is the process of life.

From here, an argument can be made for the validity of the life, whether the process should be allowed to continue, whether the life is viable or sentient, but the question of what it is, has been settled, the question of what process, has also been settled.
Click to expand...


OK. Now that the question is settled, so what? What are the legal implications? What flows from the fact that a fertilized egg is a human life? Does the fertilized egg have all the rights we associate with "persons?"
 
apple0154 said:
Try selling a foundation as a house.
Click to expand...

If you are just selling a foundation, then that is all you have. If you are selling a foundation that is currently being developed into a home, that is done all the time. You see, many people by homes that aren't fully developed.

Reading comprehension difficulties, I see. It’s saying don’t count them AS chickens because they are not chickens.
Click to expand...

The point moron is that a FERTILIZED chicken egg IS a chicken in early development. An unfertilized chicken egg is just an egg. Same thing applies for humans.
 
Dungheap said:
OK. Now that the question is settled, so what? What are the legal implications? What flows from the fact that a fertilized egg is a human life? Does the fertilized egg have all the rights we associate with "persons?"
Click to expand...

Well, the legal ramifications are obvious, what is the law? Since Roe v. Wade, we allow legal abortion up to and including partial-birth. The law doesn't define it as a human life with constitutional rights, until after it is born. This doesn't change the biology of what it is.

Before we can even get to a philosophical argument on when it is moral and ethical to allow human life to be killed, we have to first acknowledge it is human life we are discussing, and a good little chunk of uneducated people in this country, can't bring themselves to admit the biological facts on this, we are mired in the silly debate over when life begins. Life begins at conception, there is no other point at which you can state the process has begun, other than the point at which the process began. It's really not that difficult to comprehend.
 
Dixie said:
Well, the legal ramifications are obvious, what is the law? Since Roe v. Wade, we allow legal abortion up to and including partial-birth. The law doesn't define it as a human life with constitutional rights, until after it is born. This doesn't change the biology of what it is.

Before we can even get to a philosophical argument on when it is moral and ethical to allow human life to be killed, we have to first acknowledge it is human life we are discussing, and a good little chunk of uneducated people in this country, can't bring themselves to admit the biological facts on this, we are mired in the silly debate over when life begins. Life begins at conception, there is no other point at which you can state the process has begun, other than the point at which the process began. It's really not that difficult to comprehend.
Click to expand...

I conceded the point for purposes of argument. My questions deal with the "so what?" aspect of it. Have you no opinions on the matter?
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
I conceded the point for purposes of argument. My questions deal with the "so what?" aspect of it. Have you no opinions on the matter?
Click to expand...

Well, I am not a Christian who believes it is wrong to kill any human life under any circumstances, but I do have respect for human life. I think the process of abortion is inhumane after a certain point, when the fetus has began development and can feel pain, certainly. I also think due deliberation concerning the justifications is in order, since it is a human life we are discussing. Abortion solely for the sake of birth control, convenience or vanity, is deplorable, in my opinion. Abortion to prevent a human from suffering deformity or severe handicap, yeah, I can see a case being made for that. Rape? Incest? Sure, we can have exceptions, I have no problem with that. I just want us to be honest about the significance of what we're doing, which is to end a human life.
 
In order to avoid... complication, physicians may ask their patients to wait until the pregnancy is at least 4 or 5 weeks in order to detect and remove all the pregnancy tissue with greater accuracy...

When is it too late to have an abortion?

Generally speaking, an abortion is legal in the United States through the second trimester, or 24 weeks LMP. However, each state has its own regulations for when, where, and under what circumstances an abortion can be performed in the second and third trimester. In some situations, usually involving severe fetal defects or abnormalities, third trimester abortions may be performed, but these are extremely rare.

It is advised that the patient have an abortion as soon as possible, because the procedure becomes more complicated as the pregnancy continues and the cost of the abortion usually increases with each week of the pregnancy.

http://abortionusa.com/common.aspx

Romney paid 15% tax because that's the law, however wrongheaded it is. Same with abortions, a subject that IMO, is best left up to the woman and her man. The right always tries to legislate morality and brings up divisive issues like this to charge up the bible belters around election time. If the right really wanted to promote forced birth they should have done it when they had both houses and Bush in the white house. Why didn't they? Because they need to use this issue during elections. You can believe what you want but this is nothing but politics and to hell with women's health.
 
Karen Handel is out on her ass - she should be kept as far away from women's health as possible. Let her get back into politics. Politicians are good for no one's health.

I was glad to see it.
 
Dixie said:
I think this entire episode is sad, because Susan G. Komen is a well-respected charity which has done amazing work, and I believe this will be a huge blow to their contributions, most of which I bet come from people who are pro-life. I don't know about the average contributor, but I honestly had no idea Komen gave money to PP. I think they are going to find it's not a real popular move, and as much noise as they may have heard from the left, it will be nothing compared to the silence heard in their donation centers. I don't think they should have been donating to PP to begin with, but then to come out and say they were going to stop, only to reverse that decision the next day, is unbelievable.

It would be like a cheating husband telling his wife he had been having an affair, but it was over... then the next day, telling his wife he planned to remain "friends" with the woman.... (this isn't going to work, btw.)
Click to expand...

Thank-you for sharing your experience with us. :)
 
I think these (mostly BOYS) arguing the conception point should confirm with thier priest that they should be feeling a ton of guilt for flushing so many of thier swimmers.
 
Dixie said:
If someone asks what time you arrived at a store, the correct answer is what time you entered the parking lot (aka: arrived) at the store. If someone asks what time you had dinner, you say what time you sat down to "have" dinner. It's really quite simple, and the same applies with human life... it begins when a male sperm fertilizes a female egg... point of conception. This is where the process of life begins, regardless of whether you wish to accept that fact or not. Some people like to take it to the absurd and claim that something isn't actually what it is, until a predetermined point of time which they arbitrarily set, and biology refutes that in the case of human life.
Click to expand...

Here we go, again. Biology/science tells us a human being is an organism and an organism has to be able to carry on the processes of life.

Following so far?

OK. 50% of fertilized cells spontaneously abort within hours or days. Once you realize that is the case a little common sense should tell you a large number of fertilized cells are unable to carry on the processes of life meaning that are not organisms meaning they are not human beings and would never become human beings.

That's not too difficult to understand, is it?
 
apple0154 said:
OK. 50% of fertilized cells spontaneously abort within hours or days. Once you realize that is the case a little common sense should tell you a large number of fertilized cells are unable to carry on the processes of life meaning that are not organisms meaning they are not human beings and would never become human beings.
Click to expand...

and most adults die of natural causes.....the same rationale leads one to conclude it's wrong to punish someone for murder.....
 
Dixie said:
Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop did extensive studies on conception, and he points out that at the moment conception takes place, a host of chemical reactions occur, and an organic process begins. Now I want you to remove yourself from the abortion debate, and concentrate on the details here... some process has begun, specifically, what is the process? You simply can't define this any other way, and remain honest to science and biology. It is the process of life.

From here, an argument can be made for the validity of the life, whether the process should be allowed to continue, whether the life is viable or sentient, but the question of what it is, has been settled, the question of what process, has also been settled.
Click to expand...

No, the question of what it is has not been settled because we do not know if the fertilized cell has all the necessary "ingredients". It has to be able to carry on the processes of life in order to be classified as an organism and considering 50% do not carry on the processes of life it's both reasonable and logical to conclude they do not have the necessary ingredients.
 
apple0154 said:
Here we go, again. Biology/science tells us a human being is an organism and an organism has to be able to carry on the processes of life.

Following so far?

OK. 50% of fertilized cells spontaneously abort within hours or days. Once you realize that is the case a little common sense should tell you a large number of fertilized cells are unable to carry on the processes of life meaning that are not organisms meaning they are not human beings and would never become human beings.

That's not too difficult to understand, is it?
Click to expand...

cells spontaneously abort

spontaneously abort

cells abort

Abort? Abort WHAT????

(Hint: It's a process!)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top