"Australia has better Healthcare than us."

Truth Detector said:
......and these government systems turn their citizens into dependent wards of the state while bankrupting the nations who support them.

Most, with brains, should find it repugnant, that to avoid wait times in the months after paying exorbitant taxes for this "free" health care, the need to buy additional insurance outside the system to get the standard of care Americans take for granted.
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National insurance pays for the NHS, State Pension and Unemployment Benefit. You pay until the state retirement age which is currently 65. If you are 55, married on a salary of £100,000 then this tax year you would pay £4427. Whilst there are queues for routine procedures, the NHS is beyond compare for emergencies. Even the queues are rarely longer than a month for most hospital appointments. I just recently got a referral from my family doctor to go to the ENT hospital, the wait was two weeks and they gave me a choice of appointments to suit me.

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Milagro said:
National insurance pays for the NHS, State Pension and Unemployment Benefit. You pay until the state retirement age which is currently 65. If you are 55, married on a salary of £100,000 then this tax year you would pay £4427. Whilst there are queues for routine procedures, the NHS is beyond compare for emergencies. Even the queues are rarely longer than a month for most hospital appointments. I just recently got a referral from my family doctor to go to the ENT hospital, the wait was two weeks and they gave me a choice of appointments to suit me.

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Oh forgot to mention that we pay around a third per patient on healthcare than you do in the US. Much of which is due to the incredible savings achievable by eliminating the huge waste, duplication and sheer bureaucracy incumbent in your system. You are currently paying over 18% of GDP and rising on healthcare and that is just not sustainable.

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Milagro said:
Yes, he runs a marijuana shop, five joints a day may not sound like much but they are two foot long!

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Yeah, and we do the total joint so there isn't any waste.

It's demanding work but someone has to do it.
 
Bill said:
Money isn't the only motivator and often not the best one either...
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But overall there's none better lol.

Look, this is one of those instances where I wish/hope liberals are right---I'm just skeptical of it. Free healthcare would be wonderful.

Human beings need an incentive to produce and/or bust their arses providing a service. It's just a fact of life.

One of the reasons [no, the only reason] we do five total joints in a day and not two is because there's more money in doing five. If we take longer than 20 minutes flipping an OR in between surgeries the doc and the front desk want to know why it's taking so long.

But things are more chill at the VA. Why do you suppose that is? And can you convince me the whole healthcare system won't turn into a gigantic VA if we go single payer?

Keep in mind I want to be convinced.
 
Darth Omar said:
But overall there's none better lol.

Look, this is one of those instances where I wish/hope liberals are right---I'm just skeptical of it. Free healthcare would be wonderful.

Human beings need an incentive to produce and/or bust their arses providing a service. It's just a fact of life.

One of the reasons [no, the only reason] we do five total joints in a day and not two is because there's more money in doing five. If we take longer than 20 minutes flipping an OR in between surgeries the doc and the front desk want to know why it's taking so long.

But things are more chill at the VA. Why do you suppose that is? And can you convince me the whole healthcare system won't turn into a gigantic VA if we go single payer?

And keep in mind I want to be convinced.
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Let me tell you something that I doubt that many Americans know about the NHS. Consultants are allowed to do private work outside the state system but only when they have fulfilled their quota. It was one of the original concessions to get doctors and surgeons to agree way back in 1948. So there is your incentive straight away!!



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Milagro said:
Let me tell you someone that I doubt that many Americans know about the NHS. Consultants are allowed to do private work outside the state system but only when they have fulfilled their quota. It was one of the original concessions to get doctors and surgeons to agree way back in 1948. So there is your incentive straight away!!

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That's one way of keeping things incentivized.
 
Darth Omar said:
That's one way of keeping things incentivized.
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Yes around half do private work and they are now being forced to declare their earnings from private work. This is to ensure that they aren't trying to foist extra work onto junior doctors so they can make even more money.

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America has, I'm afraid, the crappiest and most expensive health care on earth, devoted to competitive spite instead of health. That is a stupid basis for anything.
 
Milagro said:
Yes around half do private work and they are now being forced to declare their earnings from private work. This is to ensure that they aren't trying to foist extra work onto junior doctors so they can make even more money.

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I can see where this is going lol.

So, if you're not wealthy enough to private pay, chances are excellent you'll get the junior doc. Not necessarily a bad thing, but there's no substitute for experience. And it actually makes sense that the junior docs earn their proverbial dues. I work with a young Canadian doc that tells me the same thing.

It will end up as a two-tier system. With the wealthy on top---they will get the best care because they can afford it.

It's an inevitable consequence of any socialist system.
 
Darth Omar said:
I can see where this is going lol.

So, if you're not wealthy enough to private pay, chances are excellent you'll get the junior doc. Not necessarily a bad thing, but there's no substitute for experience. And it actually makes sense that the junior docs earn their proverbial dues. I work with a young Canadian doc that tells me the same thing.

It will end up as a two-tier system. With the wealthy on top---they will get the best care because they can afford it.

It's an inevitable consequence of any socialist system.
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All junior doctors must work in the NHS before becoming consultants, when they can do private work but only if they've done their NHS quota first. Ensuring that they declare all their earnings means that they can find out which ones are trying to foist their work onto the junior staff and stop it.


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Milagro said:
Yes around half do private work and they are now being forced to declare their earnings from private work. This is to ensure that they aren't trying to foist extra work onto junior doctors so they can make even more money.

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Yes what a horrible concept. Why do you think making money is so bad? Would you be so blasé if someone were trying to limit your ability to earn? Or have you compartmentalized because you have determined that YOUR needs are greater than someone else's labor and property?
 
I Love America said:
Yes what a horrible concept. Why do you think making money is so bad? Would you be so blasé if someone were trying to limit your ability to earn? Or have you compartmentalized because you have determined that YOUR needs are greater than someone else's labor and property?
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Oh do shut the fuck up, it's clear that you have little idea what's going on here. Consultants in the NHS are contracted to do a certain number of hours before they can do outside private work. If they really want to make shedloads of money then they can go work in the private sector full time. If you were an employer, would you be happy if some of your staff said that they were going to work somewhere else for two days a week but don't worry the office junior can take over?

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Milagro said:
Oh do shut the fuck up, it's clear that you have little idea what's going on here. Consultants in the NHS are contracted to do a certain number of hours before they can do outside private work. If they really want to make shedloads of money then they can go work in the private sector full time. If you were an employer, would you be happy if some of your staff said that they were going to work somewhere else for two days a week but don't worry the office junior can take over?

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You stay satisfied with your shitty care. It's free right?

Too bad it didn't keep your mom alive.
 
Darth Omar said:
But overall there's none better lol.

Look, this is one of those instances where I wish/hope liberals are right---I'm just skeptical of it. Free healthcare would be wonderful.

Human beings need an incentive to produce and/or bust their arses providing a service. It's just a fact of life.

One of the reasons [no, the only reason] we do five total joints in a day and not two is because there's more money in doing five. If we take longer than 20 minutes flipping an OR in between surgeries the doc and the front desk want to know why it's taking so long.

But things are more chill at the VA. Why do you suppose that is? And can you convince me the whole healthcare system won't turn into a gigantic VA if we go single payer?

Keep in mind I want to be convinced.
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Perhaps for you..:dunno: You should look into it, you might be very surprised...
 
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