Attack on gun rights begin anew~

[Cancel8]

it's a numbers game. As it stands, there are about 4 million service members total. about a million law enforcement officers. Unless the feds recalled every military member to combat a revolution here, we can expect to face maybe 3 million armed military members. There's no hope in a front line to front line fight, so it would certainly result in guerrilla warfare. It would then be just a matter of crushing the morale of the standing army. sniper fire and night time raid and run skirmishes is what would be needed.

So you're a match for the US military?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

So you're a match for the US military?

by myself? what do you think? but I am a former Marine. I know dozens of former marines who think like I do. I also know dozens of former other branch members who think like I do. I'm pretty sure we'd be a good match against a couple of military companies.

 

[Bfgrn]

hummmm we know abortion was illegal during our Founders time and not considered a "right to privacy" for women to kill their unborn...just hummmmmmmm~

Is there a point in your post? In our founders day, women were 2nd class citizens. Without the progressive movement, you'd be washing clothes to earn enough for a dowry, promised to the man of your father's choice, and have no right to vote.

 

[Phantasmal]

it's a numbers game. As it stands, there are about 4 million service members total. about a million law enforcement officers. Unless the feds recalled every military member to combat a revolution here, we can expect to face maybe 3 million armed military members. There's no hope in a front line to front line fight, so it would certainly result in guerrilla warfare. It would then be just a matter of crushing the morale of the standing army. sniper fire and night time raid and run skirmishes is what would be needed.

there would be those who would defect, also, because they would not be able to fire on their own, I would guess.

 

[Phantasmal]

Is there a point in your post? In our founders day, women were 2nd class citizens. Without the progressive movement, you'd be washing clothes to earn enough for a dowry, promised to the man of your father's choice, and have no right to vote.

we weren't allowed to own property, either.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

there would be those who would defect, also, because they would not be able to fire on their own, I would guess.

there definitely is that. and you can also count on the civilian numbers growing should there be a sizable military response against civilians.

 

[Cancel8]

there definitely is that. and you can also count on the civilian numbers growing should there be a sizable military response against civilians.

So you maintain an armed cadre of potential revolutionaries?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

we weren't allowed to own property, either.

this isn't true. If a man passed away, his property defaulted to his wife.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

So you maintain an armed cadre of potential revolutionaries?

I'm friendly with a handful of people who would fight unlawful actions by our government.

 

[Cancel8]

I'm friendly with a handful of people who would fight unlawful actions by our government.

Do they know you claim to be "smarter than them"?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Do they know you claim to be "smarter than them"?

I'm smarter than YOU, not smarter than them.

 

[Cancel8]

I'm smarter than YOU, not smarter than them.

So shouldn't you change your screen name?

After all, "smarterthanyou" doesn't seem to indicate who you are smarter than, does it?

 

[Minister of Truth]

there would be those who would defect, also, because they would not be able to fire on their own, I would guess.

Guys like me would shut down the government's control over the airspace, making its aerial assets completely worthless against the people.

 

[Cancel8]

Guys like me would shut down the government's control over the airspace, making its aerial assets completely worthless against the people.

Right.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Right.

Right, because I work in the field of airospace control and defense. We control all of the US aerial assets that fly over this country, from cargo craft to F-15/16/18/22s.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Gun surprise: 2nd Amendment advocate says ban on high-capacity clips passes muster By Michael Isikoff
NBC News National Investigative Correspondent

A leading gun rights advocate says there is no constitutional barrier to restricting the sale of high-capacity gun magazines such as the one used by accused Tucson shooter Jared Loughner and that such proposals are justified to prevent “looney tunes” from committing more gun massacres.
Robert A. Levy, who served as co-counsel in the landmark 2008 Supreme Court case that established a Second Amendment right to bear arms, said there was no reason the court’s decision in that case should apply to the purchase of high-capacity gun magazines.

“I don’t see any constitutional bar to regulating high-capacity magazines,” Levy said in an interview with NBC. “Justice (Antonin) Scalia made it quite clear some regulations are permitted. The Second Amendment is not absolute.”

The comments by Levy, chairman of the board of the libertarian Cato Institute, come as Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York is preparing to circulate a bill Thursday to ban the sale or transfer of high-capacity magazines. Supporters took Levy’s comments as a sign that at least one gun rights advocates might be open to the idea.

“For somebody like him to say this is significant,” said Kristen Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy Center, a leading gun control group. Levy had been one of the lead lawyers for gun rights advocates in District of Columbia v. Heller, the 2008 case in which the Supreme Court overturned a Washington, D.C., ban on handgun ownership and affirmed for the first time that the Second Amendment encompassed an individual right to own firearms.
There is little doubt that any gun control proposal will face tough sledding in the Congress. A spokesman said today that House Majority Leader Eric Cantor is against the idea. One leading gun rights group, Gun Owners of America, posted a statement on its website this week denouncing “liberal politicians flocking like vultures” to gain political advantage from the Tucson tragedy by proposing gun control measures.

But gun control groups argue that measures like one being proposed by McCarthy in the House (and Sen. Frank Lautenberg, who is sponsoring a similar bill in the Senate) are so modest and reasonable that they could gain traction. Law enforcement officials have noted that Loughner’s high-capacity magazine substantially increased the lethality of his rampage. Witnesses said he was able to get off at least 31 shots without reloading and was only wrestled to the ground when he tried to reload with another high-capacity magazine. The manufacture of such magazines were prohibited under the 1994 federal assault weapons ban, but that law lapsed in 2004, and gun experts say the sale of such magazines have since proliferated.

President Obama, during his 2008 campaign, supporting reinstating the assault weapons ban, but abandoned the idea as politically impractical after taking office. This week, the White House has declined to respond to requests for comment on whether the president would support a restriction on high-capacity magazines.

Although he is strongly opposed to most gun control measures, Levy said in this case “as a policy matter” restricting access to high-capacity magazines such as the 33-round one used by Loughner makes sense.
“It may stop a few of these looney tunes,” Levy said. While saying that he saw it as a “close call," he said that a restriction of “10 to 15 rounds makes sense.”

it was a 30 round clip with one in the chamber

if it were i, i would have used a .44 or .45, but a 9 mm with the proper ammunition is adequate

the best solution is nurses at all level of schooling (elementary, middle school, high school and college) with mental health training

the answer is not 'gun control' but better mental health availability and treatment for our children and adults

 

[Good Luck]

You're a fucking radical whack job.

Yea, and here are a bunch more "radical whack jobs" for you to ponder.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been recognized by the General Government; but the best security of that right after all is, the military spirit, that taste for martial exercises, which has always distinguished the free citizens of these States....Such men form the best barrier to the liberties of America" - (Gazette of the United States, October 14, 1789.)

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334)

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." (Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788)

"...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

"...but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights..." (Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29.)

(this one is strong proof the founders intended the citizenry to have access to the same weapons as soldiers have. If the soldiers' weapons change, so do those of the citizenry.)

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in Federalist Paper No. 46.)

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." (Tench Coxe in 'Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution' under the Pseudonym 'A Pennsylvanian' in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 col. 1)

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People." (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788) (another strong indicator that the arms of a common soldier should also be available to the citizenry.)

(Another strong indicator that the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to give ALL people full legal access to the arms of the common soldier. In short, it isn't about hunting, it isn't about personal defense, it is about defense against tyranny of government.)

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426)

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788)

"The great object is that every man be armed" and "everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution.)

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" (Patrick Henry)

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of The United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..." (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts)

"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants" (Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787)

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)

(And there it is, for anyone to read and comprehend - except brain dead big mommy government assholes whose "comprehension" is doled out by their political masters. A bald, focused statement from one of the MAIN leaders in our path to a free nation: THE reason for the very existence of the 2nd Amendment. Gee, imagine, Thomas Jefferson - a radical whack job.

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" (George Washington)

(one of my favorites!)

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. (Thomas Jefferson, 1788)

"Those, who have the command of the arms in a country are masters of the state, and have it in their power to make what revolutions they please. Thus, there is no end to observations on the difference between the measures likely to be pursued by a minister backed by a standing army, and those of a court awed by the fear of an armed people." (John Trenchard paraphrasing Aristotle)

"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" (Noah Webster in `An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution', 1787)

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government" (Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper #28)

"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." (Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796)

"We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed" (Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824)

Damn all those fucking gun loving radicals!

 

[Good Luck]

Was that before or after we had a standing army ourselves? I truly don't remember when we left behind the militia and formed an army. Also, refresh my memory, were the Fathers for or against having a standing army, thanks!

The founders were dead set against a standing army. The idea was for the states to run organized militias of their own and nothing more.

However, our entire history is, essentially, one conflict after another - to include conflicts with Native American tribes in the expansion west. As such, it was rapidly recognized to be impractical to be continually reforming a federal army each time one was needed for a specific purpose. The first standing army was the Legion of the United States, which was formed in 1791. For a long time, though, federal troops were inferior in number - but superior in arms - to (most) state militias. That is why, in the Civil War, army units were more often than not referred to their state origins, such as 2nd Maine of Gettysburg fame, or 5th Virginia, 1st Mass, etc. Even in WWI, a significant minority of army units were formed directly from the state militias.

It was not until WWI, and the years following up to modern times that the federal army became consistently and permanently a single force superior to any state militia, indeed superior to many (if not all) state militias in combination. There was a brief period of time under Reagan that an attempt was made to significantly increase ready reserves - especially the state militias - in relation to federal forces. But that was more a cost saving measure while building up our military in a final Cold War push than having anything to do with a recognition of the dangers of an overwhelming standing federal military.

 

[Canceled2]

it was a 30 round clip with one in the chamber

if it were i, i would have used a .44 or .45, but a 9 mm with the proper ammunition is adequate

the best solution is nurses at all level of schooling (elementary, middle school, high school and college) with mental health training

the answer is not 'gun control' but better mental health availability and treatment for our children and adults

If he only recently, as an adult, began showing signs of mental illness, how could anyone have helped him? It has been speculated that he may have schizophrenia- That often does not present until his current age.

I

 

[Canceled2]

we weren't allowed to own property, either.

LOL you were the one who wondered at what the Founder's would allow~

The fact of the matter is that the unborn were understood to have rights to life as well.