Are you for or against the Obama middle class tax cuts?

Are you for or against the Obama middle class tax cuts?


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I love that self-proclaimed deficit hawk SF is all about blowing up the debt because he thinks it an abomination that high income earners experience taxation levels they experienced in the 1990s.

Hilarious.
That's one of the reasons I left the Republican party. The so called deficits Hawk were all for paying down the debt and reducing spending....until you mentioned the biggest spending program of them all, the military...OH GOD NO WE CAN"T TOUCH THE MILITARY! Even though the Cold War's been over for more then 20 years. Then, "Oh no we can't raise taxes to reduce the deficit we have to cut taxes cause supply side theory says that will increase revenue" which never happened and between tax cuts for the wealthy and run away spending on the military our debt balooned to astronomical proportions and assholes like Cheney say "Deficits don't matter".

It's just a bunch of hypocracy. There not willing to cut one single thing that they want. There not willing to make any sacrifices or compromises to pay down that debt. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
 
and yes... it IS left wing talking points... every one of those points I made are accurate
If they are substantiate them with data from a reputable source. The data I've seen only shows one year in which regressive tax cuts resulted in a marginal increase in revenues. All other years have shown substantial deficits.
 
I love that self-proclaimed deficit hawk SF is all about blowing up the debt because he thinks it an abomination that high income earners experience taxation levels they experienced in the 1990s.

Hilarious.

Wow.... another moron with nothing more than parrot points.

As I stated douche bag.... raising taxes in a recessionary environment is going to retard growth. There is NO NEED to raise the taxes in the next couple of years. You want to reduce the deficit:

1) repeal the Health care fiasco which is doing nothing but ADDING to the deficit (not to mention overall health care costs).

2) take the $500B in savings the Messiah found in wasteful spending within Medicare and eliminate it.

3) Eliminate the wasteful spending in defense/education etc...

4) for the 100000000000th time.... instead of hitting small businesses with higher taxes, do go after the ultra wealthy by eliminating the loopholes and deductions they use and will CONTINUE to use to get their effective tax rates under 20%. (whether you raise the top tax rate or not... they will STILL be able to do this.... a point you and Mott continue to ignore) but do this in a couple of years... NOT during a recessionary environment.

but I know... you and Mott don't really care to understand basic economics. you only wish to parrot your masters talking points.

Raising taxes in this environment is fucking retarded.

you idiots keep pretending that by raising the top income tax brackets that somehow will solve our financial problems as a country. THAT IS NOT A VIABLE ECONOMIC SOLUTION.
 
If they are substantiate them with data from a reputable source. The data I've seen only shows one year in which regressive tax cuts resulted in a marginal increase in revenues. All other years have shown substantial deficits.

LMAO.... no matter how many times you CALL them regressive, the tax cuts were NOT regressive you idiot. If the income taxes paid by the top 50% went UP after the tax cuts then the top half PAID MORE as a share.

You want people to show data.... lead by example.
 
That's one of the reasons I left the Republican party. The so called deficits Hawk were all for paying down the debt and reducing spending....until you mentioned the biggest spending program of them all, the military...OH GOD NO WE CAN"T TOUCH THE MILITARY! Even though the Cold War's been over for more then 20 years. Then, "Oh no we can't raise taxes to reduce the deficit we have to cut taxes cause supply side theory says that will increase revenue" which never happened and between tax cuts for the wealthy and run away spending on the military our debt balooned to astronomical proportions and assholes like Cheney say "Deficits don't matter".

It's just a bunch of hypocracy. There not willing to cut one single thing that they want. There not willing to make any sacrifices or compromises to pay down that debt. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

While there are certainly SOME pretenders when it comes to fiscal conservatism that do indeed act like you described above... true fiscal conservatives do NOT act like that.

If the tax cuts didn't work as you proclaim, then why did Kennedy and Johnson slash the top income tax rates? Why did the economy take off after Reagan slashed income tax rates?
 
There not punitively taxed more. The only fair form of taxation is progressive taxation because the wealth disproportionately benefit from government services. Because they disproportionately benefit from those services they they are expect to pay taxes proportionately to how they benefit. That's not only fair it's the only rational system cause your not increasing revenue by raising taxes on the poor and working classes. Paying 39% of you income taxes because you make more then $250,000 a year would suck but from where I sit, that's a nice problem to have!

except as you continue to ignore... our current system is REGRESSIVE. Idiots like you are simply told it is progressive. It is regressive because of all the loopholes and deductions the idiots in DC give to their wealthy donors.

A flat tax with a standard deduction is the TRUE form of PROGRESSIVE taxation. It doesn't allow the wealthy to get their effective tax rates lower than that of their secretaries.

Also, please show us your data that demonstrates the wealthy get a higher level of benefit from government services.
 
While there are certainly SOME pretenders when it comes to fiscal conservatism that do indeed act like you described above... true fiscal conservatives do NOT act like that.

Pretty much every "fiscal conservative" ho;ding national office acts like that. You could probably count on your hands the ones that do not. I mean, they know full well that spending cuts are not forthcoming yet they insist on cutting revenues anyway through tax cuts. That's not fiscal conservatism. It's just tax cut and spendism.

And you, my friend, do the exact same thing. You know full well that your magic proposed spending cuts will never be enacted yet you insist on cutting revenues anyway. A true fiscal conservative would first cut spending and then cut taxes but no one actually proposes that. Unless you have actual spending cuts first, embracing tax cuts in any form is in no way "fiscal conservatism."


If the tax cuts didn't work as you proclaim, then why did Kennedy and Johnson slash the top income tax rates? Why did the economy take off after Reagan slashed income tax rates?

Um, when Kennedy and Johnson cut the top income tax rates, those rates were a whole hell of a lot higher than they are now so the comparison there is nonsensical. Same with Reagan. Just look at 2001 to the present.

I also note that in 2001 when the tax cuts were proposed the main argument for them was not economic growth, but "it's your money, you should get it back."

Moreover, if tax increases would stifle economic growth as you claim, how do you explain the 1990s?
 
Pretty much every "fiscal conservative" ho;ding national office acts like that. You could probably count on your hands the ones that do not. I mean, they know full well that spending cuts are not forthcoming yet they insist on cutting revenues anyway through tax cuts. That's not fiscal conservatism. It's just tax cut and spendism.

True, which is why I consistently call the politicians in both parties idiots. Because NEITHER cares about the long term future of this country fiscally. Both just want to get re-elected.

Second... you can say the EXACT same thing about the Dems... they harp and harp and harp on "tax the wealthy" "tax the wealthy" "tax the wealthy" as a solution to everything. When in reality... NO MATTER WHAT REVENUES ARE RAISED.... THEY SPEND MORE THAN THEY BRING IN. EVERY FUCKING YEAR.

And you, my friend, do the exact same thing. You know full well that your magic proposed spending cuts will never be enacted yet you insist on cutting revenues anyway. A true fiscal conservative would first cut spending and then cut taxes but no one actually proposes that. Unless you have actual spending cuts first, embracing tax cuts in any form is in no way "fiscal conservatism."

No moron, I do not. I "INSIST" on doing both. I have said time and again that the Bush tax cuts were a SHORT TERM solution as they need long term spending cuts to make them economically viable. I have stated that 1000 times. I have stated 1000 times as well that SPENDING CUTS is where we need to start. So you are being completely dishonest about what I have stated.

That said, as of right now... long term... I have no problem with reverting back to the old tax rates if no spending cuts are forthcoming. But doing so NOW is moronic. You DO NOT raise taxes in a recessionary environment. As I stated before, it retards growth and will only prolong the recessionary environment by maintaining high levels of unemployment.

Um, when Kennedy and Johnson cut the top income tax rates, those rates were a whole hell of a lot higher than they are now so the comparison there is nonsensical. Same with Reagan. Just look at 2001 to the present.

I was not saying they were the same as the situation today moron. Mott stated that there was never a time that cutting the top rates was beneficial to the country as a whole. I was pointing to TWO times when it most certainly did help.

There is obviously a level where a balance comes in. Given the insane complexity of our tax code, we don't know exactly where that level is. Which is again why I point out that we should clean it up. Because then we would have a more accurate picture on revenue each year and politicians would have a harder time justifying the continued year in year out outspending of revenues.

I also note that in 2001 when the tax cuts were proposed the main argument for them was not economic growth, but "it's your money, you should get it back."

Which again is correct. Individuals do spend their money more efficiently than the idiots in DC. The question again is at what level does it begin to have adverse effects. Clearly we are at a level where we need to cut spending in order to maintain the tax system as it stands.... or we need to cut loopholes and deductions as Reagan did.... or in the worst case scenario, we raise the tax rates.

Moreover, if tax increases would stifle economic growth as you claim, how do you explain the 1990s?

Well gee... as I stated, tax increases RETARD growth... they SLOW it... they do not STOP it all together. If you are growing at 4-5% and you raise taxes as Clinton did, growth will tend to slow from that 4-5% level. In that environment it is actually a BENEFIT to the country to slow the growth. Because if it grows too fast you end up with higher levels of inflation.

If you are growing at 1% and barely hanging on to that level, you don't want to do anything that might knock you back into negative GDP growth (aka... a recession)
 
The point isnt whether the rich can afford it.. the point is whether the money is better left in the Peoples hands rather than the Governments hands. At this juncture ...when we are smack middle in an economic climate that is near Depression... we want more money left on the streets ...doesnt matter what St... Wall St or Main St ... , we want it circulating rather than stuck in the Hands of a Bureaucracy ...

We want those people who make over 250,000 out there buying Big Screen TV's, New Cars, The Latest Appliances, increasing their insurance, investing more money ..etc ... these items moving out of inventory puts people back to work.

Increasing Taxes stifles growth ... why this is so hard to understand I will never know ....
The people making $250,000 won't buy as many big screens as would the middle class because there just aren't that many of them, better to give the 98% more money to be able to buy the big screens! The $250,000 can pay their 33% tax and still afford to buy the big screens and help put the country back in the black!
 
That's one of the reasons I left the Republican party. The so called deficits Hawk were all for paying down the debt and reducing spending....until you mentioned the biggest spending program of them all, the military...OH GOD NO WE CAN"T TOUCH THE MILITARY! Even though the Cold War's been over for more then 20 years. Then, "Oh no we can't raise taxes to reduce the deficit we have to cut taxes cause supply side theory says that will increase revenue" which never happened and between tax cuts for the wealthy and run away spending on the military our debt balooned to astronomical proportions and assholes like Cheney say "Deficits don't matter".

It's just a bunch of hypocracy. There not willing to cut one single thing that they want. There not willing to make any sacrifices or compromises to pay down that debt. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
The military the golden calf!
 
The military the golden calf!
The tea party is just another example of if you say something often enough there's an awful lot of stupid people out there who will believe it to be true. What evidence what so ever has the Tea Party given of truly being fiscal conservatives? Name one of the big programs they are willing to cut spending on? They can't. Why? Their full of hot air.
 
The tea party is just another example of if you say something often enough there's an awful lot of stupid people out there who will believe it to be true. What evidence what so ever has the Tea Party given of truly being fiscal conservatives? Name one of the big programs they are willing to cut spending on? They can't. Why? Their full of hot air.
UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.....cut to .... ZERO:good4u:
 
UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.....cut to .... ZERO:good4u:
There ya go! That's fiscal conservatism. Actually it's reactionary but who gives a fuck? Let's go ahead and get rid of the approach that would cut health care cost from 16% of GDP to 10% of GDP, boy....that sure is conservative.

Problem with that Pavo is we don't have Universal Health Care (at least not yet, but we will have to soon if we want to reduce those costs too). So then let me ask this, since we don't have UHC, should we just go ahead and get rid of Medicare and the VA benefits, our two biggest socialist health care programs? That would save us about 800 billion a year. Would you agree to getting rid of these two big socialist libral give aways? Should we just go ahead and get rid of them? You could cut the federal budget right there by 20%. You game?
 
we here the same old lame shit from those of the far right.

We have a budget deficit, how do we fix it? "Tax cuts for the wealthy"
We are in a recession, how do we stimulate the economy? "Tax cuts for the wealthy"
Unemployment is high, how to we stimulate jobs growth? "Tax cuts for the wealthy"
We have a huge trade deficit, how do we balance it? "tax cuts for the wealthy"
Aunt Petunia has inflammed hemaroids, how do we cure them? "tax cuts for the wealthy"
The same old lame shit from the right ?
You never get it right, do you pinhead....???

It was NEVER, EVER, EVER "tax cuts for the wealthy".....EVER...

It is now and has always been, TAX CUTS FOR EVERYONE, INCLUDING THE WEALTHY"
 
The same old lame shit from the right ?
You never get it right, do you pinhead....???

It was NEVER, EVER, EVER "tax cuts for the wealthy".....EVER...

It is now and has always been, TAX CUTS FOR EVERYONE, INCLUDING THE WEALTHY"
No, you're the one who doesn't get it. More than 50% of the revenue from the Bush tax cuts went to the top 2%. Maybe if you had paid more attention to your math teacher in 3rd grade you could figure this shit out. LOL
 
No, you're the one who doesn't get it. More than 50% of the revenue from the Bush tax cuts went to the top 2%. Maybe if you had paid more attention to your math teacher in 3rd grade you could figure this shit out. LOL

They also pay the most in taxes so its not surprising.
 
No, you're the one who doesn't get it. More than 50% of the revenue from the Bush tax cuts went to the top 2%. Maybe if you had paid more attention to your math teacher in 3rd grade you could figure this shit out. LOL
And yet another BS claim right out of the DNC playbook. (If this is an example of what comes from someone who is "no partisan democrat" ... I'd hate to meet one who is - they'd have donkey shit leaking out their ears.)

"There are liars, damned liars, and statisticians."
Of course what many do not realize is statistical misrepresentations (ie: lying with statistics) are more often the result of grossly misuse or outright incorrect use of statistical analysis. the above is a perfect textbook example of incorrect use of analysis.

In the first place, there was no "revenue" from the Bush tax CUTS that went anywhere. Tax cuts means people KEEP their money. It's not "revenue" no matter how you slice it - unless you are a fucking liar purposely repeating DNC lies.

Second, how is it unfair that those who pay 90% of tax revenues get a larger portion of savings?

Third, the wealthy may have received more in dollars, but they received by far the smallest reduction of tax burden. Another way the above statistic is misleading: you could cut most peoples taxes to zero and they still would not have saved the dollars of someone in the top 10%, let alone 2%. Putting the tax cuts in terms of dollars is incorrect (deliberate, but still incorrect) usage of statistical analysis. If you were in a graduate stats class, you'd receive a zero (F) for that analysis.

Face it: that use of statistical analysis has one purpose in mind: to bring about an emotional response rather than making a genuine logical argument. (IOW, it's one more DNC class warfare lie.)

FACT: a family of 4 making 45-50K adjusted gross income received a 72% cut of their tax burden over their 2000 taxes. A person/family in the top 2% received less than 5% reduction. The larger cuts went to those at the bottom, not the top of the tax rolls.
 
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