Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I've read through this entire thread, and hardly any liberal has mentioned how they are specifically better off. There was one point made about health insurance coverage, but in a few years when 85% of the doctors stop practicing medicine and no one can get in to see a doc, I suspect that will change too.

It's really easy to say you are better off than four years ago, look, I will show you... I am better off than 4 years ago! See? Easy! What is difficult to do, is explain how you are better off in specific detail. Because gas is higher, groceries are higher, rent and utilities are higher, fewer people have jobs, fewer people are satisfied with what they are being paid or the job they are doing now. Four university graduating classes have diplomas in hand but can't find a job. We still have people (relatives) dying in Afghanistan, Gitmo is still open, and we've not tried a single terrorist in NYC. Gays still can't marry and pot is still illegal in much of the country. Crime is up. The rich are still rich and getting richer. We still use oil imported from the middle east. We're still exporting jobs to China. The earth is still getting warmer.

So how are you better off... that should be the required question here.

 

[Unk]

It's a bullshit question.

 

[JosephxBlade]

Exactly how is it a bullshit question? If I might impose upon you and ask.

 

[Unk]

Because of the qualifiers. I said I was better off, she said not good enough. I'm not going to play "do more, try harder." If she doesn't believe what she's seeing, or just doesn't want it to be true? Not my problem.

 

[Lowaicue]

I've read through this entire thread, and hardly any liberal has mentioned how they are specifically better off. There was one point made about health insurance coverage, but in a few years when 85% of the doctors stop practicing medicine and no one can get in to see a doc, I suspect that will change too.

It's really easy to say you are better off than four years ago, look, I will show you... I am better off than 4 years ago! See? Easy! What is difficult to do, is explain how you are better off in specific detail. Because gas is higher, groceries are higher, rent and utilities are higher, fewer people have jobs, fewer people are satisfied with what they are being paid or the job they are doing now. Four university graduating classes have diplomas in hand but can't find a job. We still have people (relatives) dying in Afghanistan, Gitmo is still open, and we've not tried a single terrorist in NYC. Gays still can't marry and pot is still illegal in much of the country. Crime is up. The rich are still rich and getting richer. We still use oil imported from the middle east. We're still exporting jobs to China. The earth is still getting warmer.

So how are you better off... that should be the required question here.

Wrong question, Dixie. The question might have been, 'How much worse off would you have been under a far right, flog 'em, hang 'em, you are on your own, government.
Your president inherited a fucked up economy, a fucked up country with a fucked up foreign policy. What do you think YOU could have done in four years with every american with an IQ of less than their shoe size vowing their hatred of you.
I have not seen, as a foreigner, one single sign from the republicanly challenged far right, that they know of better policies than those your present government is enacting.
It's just hate and violence, hate and violence, hate and violence. Absolutely horrible. Why do your fellow right wing countrymen want to fuck up their country? Why why why? I know they will say that the democrats are causing the damage, but there isn't one of them that can put together a sentence or a policy that makes political sense.

 

[Unk]

Exactly.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Wrong question, Dixie. The question might have been, 'How much worse off would you have been under a far right, flog 'em, hang 'em, you are on your own, government.
Your president inherited a fucked up economy, a fucked up country with a fucked up foreign policy. What do you think YOU could have done in four years with every american with an IQ of less than their shoe size vowing their hatred of you.
I have not seen, as a foreigner, one single sign from the republicanly challenged far right, that they know of better policies than those your present government is enacting.
It's just hate and violence, hate and violence, hate and violence. Absolutely horrible. Why do your fellow right wing countrymen want to fuck up their country? Why why why? I know they will say that the democrats are causing the damage, but there isn't one of them that can put together a sentence or a policy that makes political sense.

Or a more correct question could be:
How much Chinese cock does an ex-patriated Limey have to suck, in order to be allowed to stay in China?
Why don't you clue everyone in, wanker.

 

[JosephxBlade]

Where as that is an understandable approach, I also think a depiction of exactly how you are better off would be beneficial to both side's. If you are better off because of a raise you would have gotten with or without Obama being president that couldn't be used as a I am better off because of Obama option. If you are worse off because a girlfriend ran off with your best friend the electric razor model and they are living off of your stolen life savings in Tahiti , Then that is also not attributed to you being worse off because of Obama....unless... DAMNIT OBAMA.. you must have given that wench access to my..... I mean the imaginary man whom's ex woman is obviously a bad bad person.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The question might have been, 'How much worse off would you have been under a far right, flog 'em, hang 'em, you are on your own, government.

Well under Bush, the unemployment averaged under 6%... gas was $1.85 a gallon... milk $2.50... and he created over 6 million jobs.

Questions don't need to be speculative. Anyone can speculate. Questions should be precise and unambiguous. But then you are a moron, so I will cut you some slack, you don't understand these simple concepts. It's better for you to run lap up whatever koolaid is being poured today, and keep on speculating and imagining.

 

[Lowaicue]

Where as that is an understandable approach, I also think a depiction of exactly how you are better off would be beneficial to both side's. If you are better off because of a raise you would have gotten with or without Obama being president that couldn't be used as a I am better off because of Obama option. If you are worse off because a girlfriend ran off with your best friend the electric razor model and they are living off of your stolen life savings in Tahiti , Then that is also not attributed to you being worse off because of Obama....unless... DAMNIT OBAMA.. you must have given that wench access to my..... I mean the imaginary man whom's ex woman is obviously a bad bad person.

You have a population of 300 million.How many should be better off? 300 million of them? 200 million, 150 million? well suppose 299 million were better off, who would the loonies believe? The million who weren't or the 299 million who were.
That kind of arguement would never be used by the right, why should it be used by the centre right?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Where as that is an understandable approach, I also think a depiction of exactly how you are better off would be beneficial to both side's. If you are better off because of a raise you would have gotten with or without Obama being president that couldn't be used as a I am better off because of Obama option. If you are worse off because a girlfriend ran off with your best friend the electric razor model and they are living off of your stolen life savings in Tahiti , Then that is also not attributed to you being worse off because of Obama....unless... DAMNIT OBAMA.. you must have given that wench access to my..... I mean the imaginary man whom's ex woman is obviously a bad bad person.

I'm personally not better off. Four years ago, I worked for a mid-sized newspaper owned by Gannett, the largest newspaper company in North America. Because of the tanking economy, the company was forced to lay off 30% of their workforce. My job was spared, but the workload increased dramatically as remaining employees had to take up the slack. There was hope that the stimulus and economic recovery plans would work, but after another year and a half, when that failed to happen, another round of cuts were made. Again, I was spared, many were not. Again, my workload increased exponentially. After yet another year of no recovery, and with businesses folding left and right, the advertising revenues had fallen through the floor, and the newspaper again made cuts in staff. When they came to me and told me what all I would now be responsible for, and with a third year of no pay increase, I chose to leave the company. I didn't want to, I loved my job, loved the people I worked with, and felt like I did a good job for my company, but the expectations were more than I could bear.

So now, four years later, I am unemployed. I don't need a job, I have money, but I enjoyed working and doing something. I go to the grocery store every week... hamburger meat is almost too expensive to buy anymore. Everything in the store is considerably higher in price than 4 years ago. This is largely due to rising fuel costs, which is the result of several factors controlled by Obama and his administration's policies.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You have a population of 300 million.How many should be better off? 300 million of them? 200 million, 150 million? well suppose 299 million were better off, who would the loonies believe? The million who weren't or the 299 million who were.
That kind of arguement would never be used by the right, why should it be used by the centre right?

When gasoline is 40% higher in price... people are not better off.
When groceries are 30% higher in price... people are not better off.
When unemployment is over 8%... people are not better off.
When no new jobs are being created... people are not better off.
When there are virtually no pay raises for years on end... people are not better off.
When more people are filing bankruptcy... they are not better off.
When more people are losing their homes... they are not better off.

You can spin and speculate all you like... people are simply NOT better off than 4 years ago.... with the possible exception of people receiving government assistance. Now THERE is where you may find a few people who ARE actually better off.

 

[Unk]

When gasoline is 40% higher in price... people are not better off.
When groceries are 30% higher in price... people are not better off.
When unemployment is over 8%... people are not better off.
When no new jobs are being created... people are not better off.
When there are virtually no pay raises for years on end... people are not better off.
When more people are filing bankruptcy... they are not better off.
When more people are losing their homes... they are not better off.

You can spin and speculate all you like... people are simply NOT better off than 4 years ago.... with the possible exception of people receiving government assistance. Now THERE is where you may find a few people who ARE actually better off.

So you think you already have all the answers - why even bother posting the question.

 

[Unk]

Oh, god. If you're singing "The good old days when Bush was in office," then you REALLY weren't paying attention.

 

[JosephxBlade]

See and four years ago, I was living out of my car. I wanted to be a writer, so while hunting for a job I wrote . Now I have sold two books and have a wonderfully patient woman who spends hours with my work helping me with my written english. See, so thanks to a lucky break in finding some one who would help me overcome never receiving more then a fifth grade education I am better off. In no way shape or form can I attribute that to obama.. I would just like some example's of how he has made your life better off personally for you.

 

[Lowaicue]

I'm personally not better off. Four years ago, I worked for a mid-sized newspaper owned by Gannett, the largest newspaper company in North America. Because of the tanking economy, the company was forced to lay off 30% of their workforce. My job was spared, but the workload increased dramatically as remaining employees had to take up the slack. There was hope that the stimulus and economic recovery plans would work, but after another year and a half, when that failed to happen, another round of cuts were made. Again, I was spared, many were not. Again, my workload increased exponentially. After yet another year of no recovery, and with businesses folding left and right, the advertising revenues had fallen through the floor, and the newspaper again made cuts in staff. When they came to me and told me what all I would now be responsible for, and with a third year of no pay increase, I chose to leave the company. I didn't want to, I loved my job, loved the people I worked with, and felt like I did a good job for my company, but the expectations were more than I could bear.

So now, four years later, I am unemployed. I don't need a job, I have money, but I enjoyed working and doing something. I go to the grocery store every week... hamburger meat is almost too expensive to buy anymore. Everything in the store is considerably higher in price than 4 years ago. This is largely due to rising fuel costs, which is the result of several factors controlled by Obama and his administration's policies.

Higher prices could have something to do with inflation averaging at 2.5%/m over the last dozen years. It might have something to do with the fact that your government has been pressurising overseas factories to increase standards and therefore increase prices, it might have something to do with where you live and where you shop, it might have something to do with the fact that in times of uncertainty some suppliers increase their prices over and above the necessity. So to say that a bag of groceries is more expensive now than four years ago is a bit of a non argument. Indeed, if it wasn't more expensive you might be going through a period of negative growth and you would complain about that too.
In an ideal world salaries would go up at the same rate, but it is not an ideal world and it never will be as long as there are people who are prepared to pay minimum wages to a person without whom they could not exist. I fear that is exactly what you will get with Magic Underpants Man.
The only right wing newspaper people I have ever met have been the ad salesmen. The people who weave the words usually have sufficient intelligence to have been cut from a finer cloth.

 

[Damocles]

Whelp, that's been going on for over 30 years now Damo, with one blip duruing the Clinton administration. Republican "supply side" fiscal policy is largely to blame and has failed our nation utterly.

No, it hasn't. What failed our nation utterly is people fining banks for not giving loans to people who couldn't pay them back (and yes banks were fined and forced into compliance), then allowing them to package and sell those loans as AAA rated debt creating a fiscal bomb used as a hot potato. Yeah, it took decades to build up to that stupidity, but that was the bubble that burst and sucked the air out of this economy, during the past three decades our houses weren't losing value and inflation wasn't offset by the loss of actual wealth while all the prices went up. That's been the past three years.

Never before have I seen a President who ran on a stimulus that would make jobs that "couldn't be outsouced" try to run against outsourcing when 80% of the money set aside for his "new green economy" went to overseas companies, all while the 20% that stayed here went to campaign donors whose companies failed then sit around with his jobs council and laugh about how there wasn't "shovel ready" jobs...

But yeah, he feels your pain because his most prized possession wasn't his awesome Mustang that he's seen driving around in pictures from college days (that apparently rusted out so much that Michelle could see the sidewalk through a hole in the door), but instead was a coffee table he picked from the trash...

Hahahahaha! My policy didn't do anything I said it would... Hahhahhahahahhhaaa

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Higher prices could have something to do with inflation averaging at 2.5%/m over the last dozen years. It might have something to do with the fact that your government has been pressurising overseas factories to increase standards and therefore increase prices, it might have something to do with where you live and where you shop, it might have something to do with the fact that in times of uncertainty some suppliers increase their prices over and above the necessity. So to say that a bag of groceries is more expensive now than four years ago is a bit of a non argument. Indeed, if it wasn't more expensive you might be going through a period of negative growth and you would complain about that too.
In an ideal world salaries would go up at the same rate, but it is not an ideal world and it never will be as long as there are people who are prepared to pay minimum wages to a person without whom they could not exist. I fear that is exactly what you will get with Magic Underpants Man.
The only right wing newspaper people I have ever met have been the ad salesmen. The people who weave the words usually have sufficient intelligence to have been cut from a finer cloth.

Well now what you are doing is explaining, justifying and excusing. The question was, are you better off, not why are you not better off.

2.5% average inflation doesn't cause a 30-40% increase in prices over 4 years.

I tell ya, I trust a man who has been a successful business CEO and turned a profit on the Olympics, over a guy who's never worked in the private sector, or made payroll. I'll take the guy who understands finance and business over the guy who has no clue... and I will bet my guy has better solutions for the problems than the other guy.

 

[Lowaicue]

Well now what you are doing is explaining, justifying and excusing. The question was, are you better off, not why are you not better off.

2.5% average inflation doesn't cause a 30-40% increase in prices over 4 years.

I tell ya, I trust a man who has been a successful business CEO and turned a profit on the Olympics, over a guy who's never worked in the private sector, or made payroll. I'll take the guy who understands finance and business over the guy who has no clue... and I will bet my guy has better solutions for the problems than the other guy.

Sure, except that for him there is only one beneficiary of problems solved.... want to guess?

 

[Lowaicue]

When gasoline is 40% higher in price... people are not better off.
When groceries are 30% higher in price... people are not better off.
When unemployment is over 8%... people are not better off.
When no new jobs are being created... people are not better off.
When there are virtually no pay raises for years on end... people are not better off.
When more people are filing bankruptcy... they are not better off.
When more people are losing their homes... they are not better off.

You can spin and speculate all you like... people are simply NOT better off than 4 years ago.... with the possible exception of people receiving government assistance. Now THERE is where you may find a few people who ARE actually better off.

Petrol up by 40% could be that it was the oil companies? huh? Oil price down, petrol stays, oil price up petrol prices rise faster than a NY taxi second.
Groceries 30% up... where do you buy? Supermarket? Owned by...er...
Unemployment 8% and elsewhere in the world it is what...the economy is a global problem. You caused it but the rest of us suffered and one man sure as hell cant do much about it. You are lucky you are not Greece.
Jobs? I can't tell you. I am not there.
No pay rises? Oh right... Romney will sure fix that baby.

In fact just about everything you have mentioned there is the fault of greedy big business. Get on board and help ordinary, honest, decent people. Romney hates you like he hates everyone else.
If you honestly expect to be better off 4 years after bush totally fucked you then you are in cloud cuckoo land, my friend.