are the courts now useless?

SmarterThanYou said:
with todays bullshit judiciary, he is in fact right, because our grand USSC has not EVER written an opinion that the right to BEAR arms is protected by the 2nd Amendment. Only the right to KEEP a gun in ones home for self defense. See, liberals will draw this particular amendment out to have half a dozen cases before the right to carry a gun will be acknowledged.
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what about the heller case...while applying it only to federal and not the states, given the state law here...it cannot be rationally argued that the 2nd amendment doesn't protect this right until the state outlaws this type of carry or bearing of arms
 
Big Gay Al said:
I thought it was 38. Anyways yes I am, though it is admittedly a backhanded and more than likely unintended affirmation. Same as the Miller decision actually AFFIRMS the right to own all title 3 firearms, so long as they can serve a military application.
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well thats outstanding. (i'm being slightly sarcastic here, so bear with me)
that means that every district and circuit court that's ruled against machine gun ownership and that the 2nd Amendment applies only to the well regulated national guard is incorrect?

seriously, all of us know what the 2nd Amendment is for, but the anti-gunners and the courts aren't letting us have it yet.
 
Yurt said:
what about the heller case...while applying it only to federal and not the states, given the state law here...it cannot be rationally argued that the 2nd amendment doesn't protect this right until the state outlaws this type of carry or bearing of arms
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Yurt, you and I (and many others) know that you cannot separate the 'keep' and 'bear' portions of the right and still have any legal or judicial credibility where it concerns constitutional scholarship, but don't think for one minute that the anti-gun federal courts won't use the most incredible leaps of logic to make it that way.
 
Big Gay Al said:
No, not really. I open carry every day. No need to worry about being "made".

And the Heller case, while a valuable precedent, does not directly affirm anything other than possession.
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But AZ is and has been an open carry State and you're just trying to save face over the CCW bit. :cof1:
 
SmarterThanYou said:
well thats outstanding. (i'm being slightly sarcastic here, so bear with me)
that means that every district and circuit court that's ruled against machine gun ownership and that the 2nd Amendment applies only to the well regulated national guard is incorrect?

seriously, all of us know what the 2nd Amendment is for, but the anti-gunners and the courts aren't letting us have it yet.
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People often cite Miller incorrectly, especially at the court level. The oral arguments made, and the opinions of the justices themselves indicate that the 2A, like you and I both know, covers all firearms as long as they have some military use. The particulars are that the justices were unaware of the military value of a SBS, and thus ruled against Miller, who I must stress for those who don't know, was DEAD and thus unrepresented during the arguments. Were he alive, things would almost certainly be different today.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
But AZ is and has been an open carry State and you're just trying to save face over the CCW bit. :cof1:
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Nearly every state is an open carry state. And I'm not trying to save face, I am in the process of getting my CCW. I still intend to carry openly however. I just don't want to have to get pistol permits, or be called in to NICS anymore. And frankly I think NICS is getting tired of hearing my name every other week.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
Yurt, you and I (and many others) know that you cannot separate the 'keep' and 'bear' portions of the right and still have any legal or judicial credibility where it concerns constitutional scholarship, but don't think for one minute that the anti-gun federal courts won't use the most incredible leaps of logic to make it that way.
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unfortunately true
 
Big Gay Al said:
Nearly every state is an open carry state. And I'm not trying to save face, I am in the process of getting my CCW. I still intend to carry openly however. I just don't want to have to get pistol permits, or be called in to NICS anymore. And frankly I think NICS is getting tired of hearing my name every other week.
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OOPS, I forgot about one more little dig.
Since you mentioned the NCIS: come August any firearm that I buy, that is made in AZ (think Ruger); I won't have to go through the NCIS and I because of the breaks this gives the makers in AZ, I'll be able to buy for less. :cof1:

Thought I'd come back and add this, from September of 2009.
12 States - Open Carry
16 States - Open Carry Friendly (what ever that means)
13 States - Licensed Open Carry
8 States - Non Permissive Open Carry
1 State - Rural Open Carry

http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/2009/09/open-carry-by-state.html
 
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USFREEDOM911 said:
OOPS, I forgot about one more little dig.
Since you mentioned the NCIS: come August any firearm that I buy, that is made in AZ (think Ruger); I won't have to go through the NCIS and I because of the breaks this gives the makers in AZ, I'll be able to buy for less. :cof1:
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serious question about the FFAs that some states have made.

do you know of any gun shops in AZ that will be selling AZ made firearms and not dealing with the feds?
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
OOPS, I forgot about one more little dig.
Since you mentioned the NCIS: come August any firearm that I buy, that is made in AZ (think Ruger); I won't have to go through the NCIS and I because of the breaks this gives the makers in AZ, I'll be able to buy for less. :cof1:
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Point of order: It's NICS, not NCIS. NCIS is Naval Crime Investigation Service. NICS is National Instant Criminal background Check System. And we already have our freedom in firearms act ready to pass as well. You're not getting anything I'm not.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
serious question about the FFAs that some states have made.

do you know of any gun shops in AZ that will be selling AZ made firearms and not dealing with the feds?
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All of them will be; but the firearm has to be made in AZ, sold in AZ, and is intended to stay in AZ.
This eliminates people coming to AZ, just to bypass the Feds.
 
Big Gay Al said:
Point of order: It's NICS, not NCIS. NCIS is Naval Crime Investigation Service. NICS is National Instant Criminal background Check System. And we already have our freedom in firearms act ready to pass as well. You're not getting anything I'm not.
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Please excuse the typo and YES I AM!! :cof1:
 
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