Apparently, THIS is who we are now!

[hotdog]

No their are many more steps such as ordering the killing of all terrorists, drug dealers, and corrupt bankers.

 

[Phantasmal]

Well, according to what we have actually done we have every right to treat even US citizens like subjects, let alone somebody declared "not" a Citizen by whatever person we give that power to... (apparently the fact that the Constitution says only Congress has power over citizenship makes no bones nowadays).

Even the Constitution doesn't speak to this subject, it says traitors are bad and should be killed if they are convicted. Apparently that need not count any longer because the AG can just single-handedly declare you "non-citizen" and send in a firing squad without a trial.

Tell me, what do you think about what is being done in your name? Is it okay now that Obama is President? If I didn't like it when Bush was President what makes it different for me now?

I have always stated that I thought we should go after Saddam by special forces, how is this any different. I have always been of this opinion, that the life of one verses those of hundreds is a justification for this man to be shot upon contact. I felt this way during Bush's term, and I still feel this way. Go back and look it up!

 

[Phantasmal]

No, you are actually WRONG there... When Clinton bombed them with cruise missiles, indeed, hundreds of innocent old people and children were killed indiscriminately. The whole point of putting boots on the ground in Iraq, was to LIBERATE those people, and FREE them from the subjugation of Saddam. We did that, and we had far less collateral damage and death of innocent people, than ANY military operation we've EVER encountered. Don't you remember Falujah? We went door-to-door, ferreting out the scum and killing them, while sparing the innocents! It cost us American lives, but Bush felt it was worth it to not kill innocent people.

Are you kidding me and what did he have to do to get those boots on the ground? how many tons did he drop? Do you remember shock and awe? God I am done here, there is no reasoning with insanity.

 

[Damocles]

I have always stated that I thought we should go after Saddam by special forces, how is this any different. I have always been of this opinion, that the life of one verses those of hundreds is a justification for this man to be shot upon contact. I felt this way during Bush's term, and I still feel this way. Go back and look it up!

They are just questions you shouldn't take them so personally. People generally only get upset at questions when they make them introspective and they don't like what they are seeing. These are my favorite type of questions.

Here is what I feel about the AG declaring anybody to be "not-citizen" then sending in the goons: If the Congress has given the AG power to declare/undeclare citizenship then he has that power, otherwise even if he "exercises" such a power he does not legally have such a power. I don't remember the "Give the AG our Power over Citizenship Act" passing the Congress so I do not think he really does have the legal power to start declaring citizens "not-citizen", and he certainly has no power to declare their sentence before trial.

We are now in a congress-approved never ending war, giving the Executive power to do some things that he/she otherwise could not. Do I like that? No, I don't like the idea of a permanent war with an underdefined enemy where Congress has ceded their capacity to define citizenship to one person. We are now in that state of being as a nation that Eisenhower warned about when he spoke in warning against the Military Industrial Complex. He's probably rolling in his grave right now.

 

[Phantasmal]

They are just questions you shouldn't take them so personally. People generally only get upset at questions when they make them introspective and they don't like what they are seeing. These are my favorite type of questions.

Here is what I feel about the AG declaring anybody to be "not-citizen" then sending in the goons: If the Congress has given the AG power to declare/undeclare citizenship then he has that power, otherwise even if he "exercises" such a power he does not legally have such a power. I don't remember the "Give the AG our Power over Citizenship Act" passing the Congress so I do not think he really does have the legal power to start declaring citizens "not-citizen", and he certainly has no power to declare their sentence before trial.

We are now in a congress-approved never ending war, giving the Executive power to do some things that he/she otherwise could not. Do I like that? No, I don't like the idea of a permanent war with an underdefined enemy where Congress has ceded their capacity to define citizenship to one person. We are now in that state of being as a nation that Eisenhower warned about when he spoke in warning against the Military Industrial Complex. He's probably rolling in his grave right now.

Now you know how I feel? What makes you think I take this personally? After years of abuse on message boards, I take very little personally, I due tire of fools, like Dixie.

I do not think the AG has to declare him a non citizen, I believe he has done so by his own actions, by his passport and his allegiance to Osama and Al Q. He is an enemy of the state, just like Osama.

After reading what I have found on the web, this is old news! He has dual citizenship, but USA citizen can not have dual citizenship. He is also a fugitive of Yemeni.

I do not think the AG would have any trouble convincing a jury that al-Awlaki could no longer claim to be a citizen of the USA? I don't think they would have any trouble. I do not think he can be considered a citizen of the USA any longer.


http://www.newcitizen.us/losing.html

I think there is plenty here to revoke Al A. citizenship.

This is a subject that creates dissonance with me. I do not normally support the death penalty, but in the case of these men who create international havoc by the mass murder of innocent people, I just feel there is no other way to deal with them.
I struggle with this, but in the end, I feel it is right to kill them and also think they would not go quietly, in most cases, anyway.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki#cite_note-seerpress_lawsuit-36

 

[Damocles]

Now you know how I feel? What makes you think I take this personally? After years of abuse on message boards, I take very little personally, I due tire of fools, like Dixie.

I do not think the AG has to declare him a non citizen, I believe he has done so by his own actions, by his passport and his allegiance to Osama and Al Q. He is an enemy of the state, just like Osama.

Who, other than you, said anything about "has" to? I simply point out what you stated, that you believed the AG has power to revoke citizenship by simple declaration, then noted what the Constitution says about citizenship.

After reading what I have found on the web, this is old news! He has dual citizenship, but USA citizen can not have dual citizenship. He is also a fugitive of Yemeni.

There is absolutely zero laws against a US citizen holding dual citizenship, none. Not even little ones.

I do not think the AG would have any trouble convincing a jury that al-Awlaki could no longer claim to be a citizen of the USA? I don't think they would have any trouble. I do not think he can be considered a citizen of the USA any longer.

Again, I'll tell you what the Constitution has to say about this, only Congress has power over decisions of citizenship. Not courts, not juries, not the AG, not the President, only Congress.

http://www.newcitizen.us/losing.html

I think there is plenty here to revoke Al A. citizenship.

This is a subject that creates dissonance with me. I do not normally support the death penalty, but in the case of these men who create international havoc by the mass murder of innocent people, I just feel there is no other way to deal with them.
I struggle with this, but in the end, I feel it is right to kill them and also think they would not go quietly, in most cases, anyway.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki#cite_note-seerpress_lawsuit-36

There is nothing in those requisites that fit al-Awlaki. Being a dual citizen doesn't automatically revoke your citizenship, he holds no position of policy-level power in any foreign government, he is in no army (unless you want to declare al Qaeda an official army, but then of what nation are they?) He never was "naturalized" he has always been a citizen. He was born in Las Cruces Mexico hence no lying to USCIS. Again the "refusal to testify before Congress" thing is reliant on him being a naturalized rather than a born citizen. Nothing is there that gives our government any power to revoke the citizenship of a natural-born citizen.

Now, do I care if he is killed when they are trying to capture him? Not particularly. If he takes up arms and tries to kill our soldiers they should kill him. Should they be trying to find him? Yeah. I think they should. But this "he is not a citizen" crap is a power that not one person has over him. Now, if they capture and he is convicted of treason then he would lose "naturalized" status, but he is not a naturalized citizen, he was born here....

In fact, all of the requisites do not fit al-Awlaki, because he was born in Las Cruces, New Mexico and is a citizen by birth.

 

[Rune]

Now you know how I feel? What makes you think I take this personally? After years of abuse on message boards, I take very little personally, I due tire of fools, like Dixie.

I do not think the AG has to declare him a non citizen, I believe he has done so by his own actions, by his passport and his allegiance to Osama and Al Q. He is an enemy of the state, just like Osama.

After reading what I have found on the web, this is old news! He has dual citizenship, but USA citizen can not have dual citizenship. He is also a fugitive of Yemeni.

I do not think the AG would have any trouble convincing a jury that al-Awlaki could no longer claim to be a citizen of the USA? I don't think they would have any trouble. I do not think he can be considered a citizen of the USA any longer.


http://www.newcitizen.us/losing.html

I think there is plenty here to revoke Al A. citizenship.

This is a subject that creates dissonance with me. I do not normally support the death penalty, but in the case of these men who create international havoc by the mass murder of innocent people, I just feel there is no other way to deal with them.
I struggle with this, but in the end, I feel it is right to kill them and also think they would not go quietly, in most cases, anyway.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki#cite_note-seerpress_lawsuit-36

It is good that you struggle with this.
The easy way is to kill him without trial, but that is not a slipery slope, it is a leap off a cliff into a pit of dispair. We are americans, we don't kill americans without a trial. Period, no ifs ands or buts.
This is a simple case of virtue versus vice, virtue is the more arduous path, but choose it.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

It is good that you struggle with this.
The easy way is to kill him without trial, but that is not a slipery slope, it is a leap off a cliff into a pit of dispair. We are americans, we don't kill americans without a trial. Period, no ifs ands or buts.
This is a simple case of virtue versus vice, virtue is the more arduous path, but choose it.

What is amazing is the abject duplicity here. It's not okay to waterboard terrorists who are suspected of having information vital to American security... It's not okay to take military action against terrorists and those who harbor them... Detainees deserve their day in civilian courts, not military tribunals... Gitmo is a god-forsaken place that needs to be closed because of what it represents and how it portrays us to the rest of the world... We can't release photos of dead OBL because it might offend Muslims... but hey... its perfectly fine and dandy that we send out covert hit squads around the world, to conduct mafia-style assassinations, even if they are American citizens.... because OBAMA is doing it!