Antifa, not just an idea but a bunch of terrorists
- Thread starter T. A. Gardner
- Start date
Jake Starkey
Verified User
Antifa is more slogan than organization existing to oppose Trump and MAGA.
Jake Starkey
Verified User
Yet wrong again.
Nope......
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
It's way better organized than AI and you give it credit for.
That one went into semi-hiding after Trump announced Antifa was a terrorist group.
About - TORCH NETWORK
The Torch Network is a network of Militant antifascists across (but not limited to) the united states. We are born out of, and pay our respects to, the Anti-Racist Action Network. We are dedicated to confronting fascism and other elements of oppression. We believe in direct action. What is...
torch-antifa.org
Torch Network – It's Going Down
The Torch Network is a network of Militant antifascists across (but not limited to) the united states. We are born out of, and pay our respects to, the Anti-Racist Action Network. We are dedicated to confronting fascism and other element of oppression. We believe in direct action.
itsgoingdown.org
As just the tip of a huge iceberg.
QP!
Verified User
If a Christian group, like Army of God commits criminal or terrorist acts it is ONLY that group and not the entirety of Christianity that is labelled criminal or terrorist.
If a group who identifies as Against Fascism, commits criminal or terrorists acts it is ONLY that group and not the entire Against Fascism movement that can be labelled criminal or terrorist.
Trump wants to label the entire movement of Anti Fascism as terrorist or criminal as he and magats try to make that false and stupid argument.
If a group who identifies as Against Fascism, commits criminal or terrorists acts it is ONLY that group and not the entire Against Fascism movement that can be labelled criminal or terrorist.
Trump wants to label the entire movement of Anti Fascism as terrorist or criminal as he and magats try to make that false and stupid argument.
QP!
Verified User
So are the Christian terrorist and criminal groups, so do groups operating under the umbrella of an ideology make the ideology guilty?It's way better organized than AI and you give it credit for.
That one went into semi-hiding after Trump announced Antifa was a terrorist group.
About - TORCH NETWORK
The Torch Network is a network of Militant antifascists across (but not limited to) the united states. We are born out of, and pay our respects to, the Anti-Racist Action Network. We are dedicated to confronting fascism and other elements of oppression. We believe in direct action. What is...
Torch Network – It's Going Down
The Torch Network is a network of Militant antifascists across (but not limited to) the united states. We are born out of, and pay our respects to, the Anti-Racist Action Network. We are dedicated to confronting fascism and other element of oppression. We believe in direct action.
As just the tip of a huge iceberg.
Christian Extremist / Fundamentalist Groups
- Army of God (United States) – Anti-abortion extremists responsible for bombings, arsons, and murders.
- Ku Klux Klan (historically, USA) – White supremacist group that used Christian imagery; committed murder, lynching, and intimidation against African Americans and others.
- Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA, Uganda) – Christian millenarian cult/group known for abductions, child soldiers, and mass killings
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
You are comparing apples to concrete in most cases. If a Christian terrorist or criminal group is coordinating with other similar groups, and shares the same appearance, symbols, ideology, tactics, flag, etc., then yes all of those groups are guilty as a collective.
I don't know that the three you list have much in common ideologically except in the most abstract way. I doubt the three coordinate in any sort of way what they're doing.
QP!
Verified User
You mean if i can show you Christian groups sharing symbols like crosses, bibles, and other Christian symbiology? Shared tactics like violence, killings, burnings etc?
Are you saying if i can show you that the Christian groups share those types of things you would say all of Christianity can then be labelled?
Sure i can gather that up for comparison sake.
And please demonstrate that level of coordination amongst the different groups that operate under the Against Fascism banner so we can compare them. Lets see what you got?
QP!
Verified User
And re your statement about the "3 being guilty as collective" was not my question.
Is the ideology or belief system 'Christianity' guilty .... if the 3 did act as a collective?
As Trump and Magats are trying to say that it is the belief system or ideology 'Against Fascism' that is guilty if there are individuals or groups committing crimes or terrorist acts.
So is Christianity guilty? All who share those beliefs guilty?
We are telling you that if Christian Terrorist groups exist, and you can prove it, we would not say they do not exist simply because it is inconvenient to call them what they are and we do not want them to exist (if such mattered to me). That there is a group that does these things it would mean that they existed. And they would continue to exist even if I tried to quibble them away or gaslight people into thinking it was just uncool to notice.
That there are groups who call themselves "Antifa" that organize and commit terrorism, means that Antifa Terrorist groups exist even if you really really want us to not call them that because it is inconvenient to your belief system and you just don't think it is "cool"... If you want to be cool like QP, just ignore things that exist when he tells you that they don't exist. He'll think you are soooo cool...
Childlike you are.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
No, false analogy. The vast majority of Christianity is peaceful. That some fringe groups have usurped some religious symbols doesn't cut it. The KKK has their clan uniform, so-to-speak. They use a specific type of cross unique to them.
In a like manner, Antifa has a flag and symbols unique to them. They wear black bloc, their uniform.
Now you turn it into an argumentum ad absurdum.
So, you analogy doesn't hold.
What you are in essence arguing is something like this:
The KKK are violent
The KKK are Christians
Christians are violent
That is a fallacy of four terms.
The argument with Antifa is:
Antifa is organized
Antifa is violent
Antifa practices organized violence.
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QP!
Verified User
No one has said groups do not exist so stop being stupid.
You are saying
...'because Army of God exists and identifies as Christian and i can call them criminal therefore i can call the ideology that is Christianity criminal'.
... 'because some group identifies as being anti fascist exist and i can call them criminal therefore i can label the ideology of those Against Fascism as criminal.
If you could stop being so stupid you would stop just repeating the same thing you keep getting wrong. At no point did anyone say groups like Army of God do not exist under the ideology they follow.
You did too say the groups did not exist.
You started from they don't exist at all because they aren't "hierarchical" then moved the goalposts, repeated the same nonsense, then told me how uncool I was because I didn't slavishly follow your ideological blather. And now we are at, "Don't call them Antifa, because sometimes people who call themselves that aren't terrorists!"
At least I got you to admit that they actually exist, because that was not what you were saying at the beginning of the thread.
You may be growing, QP Herman. Let's see if you backslide into, "But you can't call them that because it isn't cool to call them Antifa when there are other groups who use that same name that aren't terrorists too!"
Finally you say they actually exist.
QP!
Verified User
Perfect analogy as the vast VAST majority of people who support the Against Fascism movement are peaceful as the no Kings protests proved.
and lol at a unique cross to them. I can show you individual churches who have different crosses from the church down the street. They are NOT all the same cross ANYWHERE. it is that it IS A CROSS that matters and not which manufacturer made it with their own branding or flair. Just as not all bibles look the same but the bible itself is the commonality.
ZOMG different crosses thus both are not christian or catholic in a way that can be linked. /TerryStupidity
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Now your argument is essentially:Perfect analogy as the vast VAST majority of people who support the Against Fascism movement are peaceful as the no Kings protests proved.
and lol at a unique cross to them. I can show you individual churches who have different crosses from the church down the street. They are NOT all the same cross ANYWHERE. it is that it IS A CROSS that matters and not which manufacturer made it with their own branding or flair. Just as not all bibles look the same but the bible itself is the commonality.
ZOMG different crosses thus both are not christian or catholic in a way that can be linked. /TerryStupidity
Some groups that are violent use a cross as a symbol
Christians use a cross as a symbol
Christians are violent.
Another fallacy of four terms.
QP!
Verified User
No i never you did fucking liar.
I said and we said that Antifa does not exist in the way Trump is trying to define it and that can be labeled a terrorist group.
And that is because they are not hierarchical and are akin to Christianity as a belief system or ideology. Which also exists but could not be labelled in the way Trump is trying for peoples action in Christianity's name.
QP!
Verified User
No that is your argument.
You are the one trying to connect 'some groups using symbology' with then "Christians or Antifascism ideologies being violent'.
I am the one saying you cannot blame the ideologies, Christianity/Anti Fascism', with the actions of 'some groups'.
So you got it exactly backwards trying to pin your argument on me and i do not make stupid arguments like you do.
Right, you just quoted me answering someone that literally said they do not exist, then tried to wipe them from history by pretending that we would not call a Christian Terrorist group a Christian Terrorist group because other Christians exist that are not part of the group we are talking about.
Your problem is, you do not want them to exist so you want me to pretend they do not exist. Calling Antifa Terrorists, well, Antifa Terrorists is simply describing exactly what they are, and they exist.
Thankfully we are at the point where we are all agreeing they actually exist. Now trying to get me to stop calling an Antifa Terrorist group an Antifa Terrorist group will wind up being your central argument. I should ignore that they exist because you think I should because it is inconvenient to your argument.
I do not care if it inconveniences you. These groups actually do exist, and we will continue to call them what they are.