Ancient Confession Found: "We invented Jesus Christ"

[Guno צְבִי]

Jesus was apparently nothing like the Messiah that all the Jews expected. It's a truly wonderful exegesis that somehow squares the circle of expectation vs reality. And actually coming up with a workable concept (albeit somewhat convoluted but still workable)

One, being less generous, could hypothesize that this was part and parcel of how the religion developed over time. That it was an attempt to re-jigger the Old Testament concept of a Messiah to be nearly the total opposite but STILL BE THE MESSIAH. To lend credence to an otherwise fringe sect that was probably difficult to differentiate from any number of other apocalyptic jewish sects the area was famous for at the time. If anything it's quite brilliant approach. Leverage a known theological concept to make the new faith more "rooted".

In a sense you see this even in Roman religions. In order to make imperial rule more acceptable to those being conquered by the Romans, the Romans would integrate local religions into their pantheon. We can even see it in Islam where Jesus is acknowledged not just as a person but a prophet of God. A means of integrating religions not only to ease the transition of the people being converted but also to lessen the potential disagreements that may arise between competing sects.

The Messiah had nothing to do with non Jews as the law had and has nothing to do with non Jews

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When the Messiah is reigning as King of Israel, the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel, their homeland (Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24).
This has clearly not yet happened and we still await its fulfillment.

Reason #3– Rebuilding of the Holy Temple – Jesus failed to achieve this.

The Temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt (Isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20; Ezekiel 37:26–27; Malachi 3:4; Zech. 14:20-21).

The Temple was still standing in Jesus’ day. It was destroyed 38 years after Jesus’ crucifixion and it has not yet been rebuilt.

Reason #4– Worldwide Reign of Peace – Jesus did not accomplish this.

There will be universal disarmament and worldwide peace with a complete end to war (Micah 4:1-4; Hoseah 2:20; Isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18).

Wars have increased dramatically in the world since the start of Christianity.

Reason #5 – Observance of the Torah Embraced by All Jews – Jesus didn’t bring this about.

The Messiah will reign as King at a time when all the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments (Ezekiel 37:24; Deut. 30:8,10; Jeremiah 31:32; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:26-27).

Jesus never ruled as King, nor have all Jews embraced the commandments of G-d’s Torah.

Reason #6 – Universal Knowledge of G-d – Jesus clearly failed here also.

The Messiah will rule at a time when all the people of the world will come to acknowledge and serve the one true G-d (Zechariah 3:9, 8:23,14:9,16; Isaiah 45:23, 66:23; Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 38:23; Psalm 86:9; Zeph. 3:9).

This, as well, has not yet taken place and we await its fulfillment.

No matter how many unusual & miraculous things Jesus seems to accomplish in the New Testament, he doesn't fulfill even one of the 6 criteria by which the Nation of Israel can recognize him as the true Jewish Messiah.

 

[Cypress]

The title Rabbi didn't exist back then, The title "rabbi" was first used in the first century CE.

The Gospels were written in the late first century CE, and unless I am mistaken, in at least one of the gospels Jesus is refereed to as "rabbi", which was supposed to be the Hebrew word for "teacher". At least in English translations. But I think the idea that he was a teacher was what was supposed to come across in the gospels.

Yes, agree that the New Testament, the Torah, the Bhaghavad Gita, the Dhammapada, the Quran, etc. are all full of embellishments and oral legend.

 

[Cypress]

Jesus did not do everything that the Messiah was supposed to do. Jesus did not gather all the Jews to Israel. Jesus did not fight the forces of evil in the world and overcome them at the head of an army led by a descendent of King David.

That's one of the lines of evidence historians use to assert Jesus was a real historical figure. The fact that Jesus did not remotely live up to Jewish expectations of a Messiah is not something the early New Testament writers would make up out of whole cloth, if their agenda was to just fabricate propaganda.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

what makes Joseph Altwell a "religious scholar"?........he has no degrees in theology or religion.......he studied computer science.......he's just another atheist with a website.......

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Can you remind me of what the "historical fact" of the disciples thinking they saw him after the crucifixion?

Nutjob preachers are a dime a dozen. There were plenty of them running around in those days just as today.

It appears what made Jesus stand out was "the Resurrection". As Cypress and I have discussed before, the crucifixion of Jesus wasn't normal. He was removed after a few hours since it appeared he had died and allowed to be entombed before sundown, both the start of the Sabbath and Passover. Since magic AKA supernatural forces don't exist, then the most likely reason for "the Resurrection" is that Jesus wasn't dead. That he lived and, after meeting with some of his disciples, skipped town to avoid the wrath of TPTB who would make sure he stayed dead.

It helped that Jesus did preach a message of peace and love which was every Eastern in philosophy but not common to the region much less among the Romans.

 

[Cypress]

Nutjob preachers are a dime a dozen. There were plenty of them running around in those days just as today.

It appears what made Jesus stand out was "the Resurrection". As Cypress and I have discussed before, the crucifixion of Jesus wasn't normal. He was removed after a few hours since it appeared he had died and allowed to be entombed before sundown, both the start of the Sabbath and Passover. Since magic AKA supernatural forces don't exist, then the most likely reason for "the Resurrection" is that Jesus wasn't dead. That he lived and, after meeting with some of his disciples, skipped town to avoid the wrath of TPTB who would make sure he stayed dead.

It helped that Jesus did preach a message of peace and love which was every Eastern in philosophy but not common to the region much less among the Romans.

^^That is also my interpretation of the historical fact that the disciples thought they saw Jesus after the crucifixion.

The Jewish historian Josephus wrote that he knew of two cases of people surviving crucifixion, and in the gospel of Mark, Pontius Pilate is surprised that Jesus expired and was taken off the cross after only six hours.

If Jesus had a near death experience because of the trauma of crucifixion, he could have felt he had come back from being dead.