Americans Paying Record Electricity Prices

[T. A. Gardner]

More fallout from trump economic policies I imagine.

Nope. This is due almost 100% to the push for "green" energy, specifically wind and solar. Everywhere wind and solar have been pushed and increased in share of the energy market has resulted in a rapid rise in energy prices. This rise is typically between 2 and 3 times the cost of conventional generation. It certainly doesn't help any that data centers and things like bitcoins have been growing exponentially in energy consumption.

What we need to do is abandon wind and solar and start pushing for nuclear backed by natural gas.

How Wind And Solar Sent Energy Prices Sky-High in ‘Green’ Countries

Adding more green energy makes power more expensive, not cheaper—due to unreliable output, required fossil fuel backup, and taxpayer subsidies.

climatechangedispatch.com

Would getting all our electricity from wind and solar power raise the price of electricity?

Yes—wind and solar are cheap and getting cheaper, but they do make the grid more complicated in ways that, today, would make electricity more expensive if we relied on them exclusively. May 30, 2023

climate.mit.edu

Wind and solar are not reliable and stable generation sources. This is basically an unresolvable problem with both. The LCOE is meaningless in determining the need for energy which is continuous. Wind and solar cannot be used for base loading. Storage on the scale necessary to make wind and solar stable is economically unaffordable.

The result is, as wind and solar grow, the need for back up sources, storage, a massively more complex grid, all combine to make the price of electricity skyrocket.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Bend Over....This is going to hurt.

And Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Nomad]

Nope. This is due almost 100% to the push for "green" energy, specifically wind and solar. Everywhere wind and solar have been pushed and increased in share of the energy market has resulted in a rapid rise in energy prices. This rise is typically between 2 and 3 times the cost of conventional generation. It certainly doesn't help any that data centers and things like bitcoins have been growing exponentially in energy consumption.

What we need to do is abandon wind and solar and start pushing for nuclear backed by natural gas.

How Wind And Solar Sent Energy Prices Sky-High in ‘Green’ Countries

Adding more green energy makes power more expensive, not cheaper—due to unreliable output, required fossil fuel backup, and taxpayer subsidies.

climatechangedispatch.com

Would getting all our electricity from wind and solar power raise the price of electricity?

Yes—wind and solar are cheap and getting cheaper, but they do make the grid more complicated in ways that, today, would make electricity more expensive if we relied on them exclusively. May 30, 2023

climate.mit.edu

Wind and solar are not reliable and stable generation sources. This is basically an unresolvable problem with both. The LCOE is meaningless in determining the need for energy which is continuous. Wind and solar cannot be used for base loading. Storage on the scale necessary to make wind and solar stable is economically unaffordable.

The result is, as wind and solar grow, the need for back up sources, storage, a massively more complex grid, all combine to make the price of electricity skyrocket.

About your two sources...

1) Your first source climatechangedispatch.com, is one of the most unreliable, unbelievable sources around on this subject, to the point that it is downright laughable ...

According to Media Bias/Fact Check: "We rate Climate Change Dispatch as a Conspiracy and Quackery level Pseudoscience source for the promotion of false or misleading information."






2) As for your second source, MIT... it is a vastly more credible, serious and believable source.



Unfortunately for you, not only does it NOT back up your claims... it mostly
REFUTES THEM...

 

[T. A. Gardner]

About your two sources...

1) Your first source climatechangedispatch.com, is one of the most unreliable, unbelievable sources around on this subject, to the point that it is downright laughable ...

According to Media Bias/Fact Check: "We rate Climate Change Dispatch as a Conspiracy and Quackery level Pseudoscience source for the promotion of false or misleading information."

View attachment 66414
View attachment 66415
View attachment 66416
View attachment 66417

2) As for your second source, MIT... it is a vastly more credible, serious and believable source.



Unfortunately for you, not only does it NOT back up your claims... it mostly
REFUTES THEM...

View attachment 66418
View attachment 66419

Whatever...

It is easily provable that solar and wind raise costs.

The key measure of electrical power in a large commercial system is the kilowatt-day. That is, supplying a kilowatt for 24 hours. Electrical power is needed continuously by any nation. That is a clear, unarguable, fact.

To get a kilowatt-day out of a solar array you need to install between 5 and 6 kw of generation PV panels. Since PV solar arrays average around a 25% capacity factor, you need that to generate 1 kw while the sun is up and shining while using the rest to store in batteries or some other storage means (pumped hydro adds another 3 or 4 kw of capacity needed btw). For storage you need about 16 to 20 hours of battery capacity to ensure continuous output for your kilowatt-day.

The cost of the panels and batteries combine to make solar the most expensive means to generate a kilowatt-day there is.

Wind is better, but not sufficiently that it can be relied on to do the job either.

As for the "environmental cost of fossil fuels..." I, and the majority of people don't give a flying fuck about that. As your sources use it, it is simply a canard, red herring, or excuse to try and make wind and solar look competitive. Wind and solar also have environmental consequences. Large PV solar arrays create urban heat island effects and strip large swaths of land of vegetation creating erosion and runoff issues. Wind turbines shed microplastics from their blades and even a small generating plant of them can depost tons of plastic debris over the life of the plant downwind for miles causing pollution issues. Then there's the issue of wind power taking that energy out of the atmosphere and creating large zones downwind of the generating plant of hotter atmosphere as the air stagnates. Also, removing wind energy changes things like weather patterns. So, these so-called panaceas are anything but.

So, in underlining those portions of my MIT quote, only reinforces my position. You have to use accounting tricks and gimmicks to make solar and wind competitive. That's why both require massive government subsidies just to be constructed and then more subsidies over their lifetime to keep them operating.

Solar and Wind's Hidden Price Tag: Why Cost Isn't the Whole Story

Uncover more realistic prices of solar and wind energy and understand the implications for the future of renewable electricity generation.

www.powermag.com

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/solar-and-wind-power-make-electricity-more-expensive-thats-a-fact

Levelized Full System Costs of Electricity - Eavor

Different electricity generating technologies are often compared using the Levelized Costs of Electricity (LCOE), which summarize different ratios of fixed to variable costs into a single cost metric. They have been criticized for ignoring the effects of intermittency and non-dispatchability...

eavor.com

What Is The Electricity Cost Per kWh in Australia? - Jackery Australia

The rising electricity prices in Australia remain a concern for many people. Typically, the price per kWh of electricity in Australia varies wildly, depending on where you live and your electricity supplier. Know more from this ultimate guide now!

au.jackery.com

 

[Nomad]

Whatever...

It is easily provable that solar and wind raise costs.

The key measure of electrical power in a large commercial system is the kilowatt-day. That is, supplying a kilowatt for 24 hours. Electrical power is needed continuously by any nation. That is a clear, unarguable, fact.

To get a kilowatt-day out of a solar array you need to install between 5 and 6 kw of generation PV panels. Since PV solar arrays average around a 25% capacity factor, you need that to generate 1 kw while the sun is up and shining while using the rest to store in batteries or some other storage means (pumped hydro adds another 3 or 4 kw of capacity needed btw). For storage you need about 16 to 20 hours of battery capacity to ensure continuous output for your kilowatt-day.

The cost of the panels and batteries combine to make solar the most expensive means to generate a kilowatt-day there is.

Wind is better, but not sufficiently that it can be relied on to do the job either.

As for the "environmental cost of fossil fuels..." I, and the majority of people don't give a flying fuck about that. As your sources use it, it is simply a canard, red herring, or excuse to try and make wind and solar look competitive. Wind and solar also have environmental consequences. Large PV solar arrays create urban heat island effects and strip large swaths of land of vegetation creating erosion and runoff issues. Wind turbines shed microplastics from their blades and even a small generating plant of them can depost tons of plastic debris over the life of the plant downwind for miles causing pollution issues. Then there's the issue of wind power taking that energy out of the atmosphere and creating large zones downwind of the generating plant of hotter atmosphere as the air stagnates. Also, removing wind energy changes things like weather patterns. So, these so-called panaceas are anything but.

So, in underlining those portions of my MIT quote, only reinforces my position. You have to use accounting tricks and gimmicks to make solar and wind competitive. That's why both require massive government subsidies just to be constructed and then more subsidies over their lifetime to keep them operating.

As with any new or emerging technologies, they are expensive at first but as their use becomes more common and production levels reach a certain point, the cost drops drastically.

In the early 1980's, a big, bulky IBM desktop PC with few KB of RAM, a 640K hard drive and a four color monitor cost over $2,000.

Today, I'm trying this post on an 8" tablet with 8 gigabytes of ram and 32 gigabytes of storage, for which I paid less than $200.

Re: your ignorant comment... "As for the "environmental cost of fossil fuels..." I, and the majority of people don't give a flying fuck about that."

If by "...the majority of people..." you mean the same ignorant, thick-skulled knuckle-draggers who support the criminal con artist in the WH, that may be true.

But when one expands the definition of "...the majority of people..." to include decent, reasonable and normally intelligent people across the spectrum, who don't guzzle your brand of orange Kool Aid, one gets a much different picture....





You make of that what you will.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

As with any new or emerging technologies, they are expensive at first but as their use becomes more common and production levels reach a certain point, the cost drops drastically.

In the early 1980's, a big, bulky IBM desktop PC with few KB of RAM, a 640K hard drive and a four color monitor cost over $2,000.

Today, I'm trying this post on an 8" tablet with 8 gigabytes of ram and 32 gigabytes of storage, for which I paid less than $200.

Re: your ignorant comment... "As for the "environmental cost of fossil fuels..." I, and the majority of people don't give a flying fuck about that."

If by "...the majority of people..." you mean the same ignorant, thick-skulled knuckle-draggers who support the criminal con artist in the WH, that may be true.

But when one expands the definition of "...the majority of people..." to include decent, reasonable and normally intelligent people across the spectrum, who don't guzzle your brand of orange Kool Aid, one gets a much different picture....

View attachment 66446

View attachment 66447

You make of that what you will.

If the panels were free, solar would still be too expensive. That's how bad it is. Storage will never be affordable in quantities to make it work. You can't get around the chemistry and physics of that. You cannot get more power out than goes into the system.

As for your polls, there's others. It is clear that the longer "climate change" is pushed politically, the less belief there is in it as advertised.

2025 Poll: Americans’ Views on Climate Change and Policy in 15 Charts

Explore our top charts from our 2025 poll with AP-NORC that explored American's views on climate change and policy.

climate.uchicago.edu

Climate Change Concerns Dip | Polling Institute

Younger adults express less urgency than in prior polls

www.monmouth.edu

America in 2025: Survey Finds Steady Concerns Amid Constant National Change – American Communities Project

www.americancommunities.org

 

[Tbird19482]

These are the charges right off my bill.
Electricity Delivery charges
Basic service charges
1) Delivery charge .09783 cents per Kwh.
2 )transition charge .00201799 cents per kwh.
3 ) Revenue decoupling mech.000118 cents per kwh.
4) SBC charge . .006629 cents per kwh
5) Recovery charge .009344 cents per KWH
Then there are the
ELECTRICITY SUPPLY CHARGES.
1 ) Supply charge .09515065 cents per KWH
2) Merchant function charge .00334 cents per KWH
then Taxes on delivery charges 2.0408% ( on total bill )
Then sales tax of 3% on total bill
Looks to me to be a bunch of BS charges to pad their bottom line.
And I can't get a decent answer out of the PSC
What is a Revenue DECOUPLING mech?
A charge for decoupling me from my money?
And what is a Recovery charge? what are they recovering? Electric I didn't use?

 

[signalmankenneth]

Bend Over....This is going to hurt.

And Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Kurmugeon]

Keep in mind that natural gas is used in the U.S. for all kinds of manufacturing processes, both as an energy source, such as kilns to fire ceramics, as a material, such as many chemical processes such as turning limestone into cement for concrete, plastic and adhesives feed stock, and the production of fertilizers.

 

[FastLane]

These are the charges right off my bill.
Electricity Delivery charges
Basic service charges
1) Delivery charge .09783 cents per Kwh.
2 )transition charge .00201799 cents per kwh.
3 ) Revenue decoupling mech.000118 cents per kwh.
4) SBC charge . .006629 cents per kwh
5) Recovery charge .009344 cents per KWH
Then there are the
ELECTRICITY SUPPLY CHARGES.
1 ) Supply charge .09515065 cents per KWH
2) Merchant function charge .00334 cents per KWH
then Taxes on delivery charges 2.0408% ( on total bill )
Then sales tax of 3% on total bill
Looks to me to be a bunch of BS charges to pad their bottom line.
And I can't get a decent answer out of the PSC
What is a Revenue DECOUPLING mech?
A charge for decoupling me from my money?
And what is a Recovery charge? what are they recovering? Electric I didn't use?

Stop brewing so much coffee and save on your electric bill.

 

[Kurmugeon]

There is a way to store wind and solar power, use atmospheric CO2, separated by electricity into C and 02, and Combine the C with H from separating H20, and get Methane. Then catalytic combine methane into butane for density an ease of transport.



I know how to do it, but when I mentioned the possibility to a interested co-worker, at the national labs, and was overheard by the office manager's secretary, she demanded that I be fired, for not being in support of AGW.



-

 

[Crepitus]

The average retail price for electricity gained 7.4% in September to a record 18.07 cents per kilowatt-hour, the biggest gain since December 2023, according to data released Tuesday.

American households are paying more than ever before for electricity after prices surged the most in almost two years, according to the US Energy Information Administration.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/americans-paying-record-electricity-prices-172900573.html

The AI processing centers are eating up all the power.

A typical processing center uses more power than 100,000 typical homes and they are cropping up EVERYWHERE.

Supply and demand is raising the prices as much or more than fossil fuel prices.

 

[Tbird19482]

Stop brewing so much coffee and save on your electric bill.

Has anybody told you you are an ASSHOLE?

 

[Crepitus]

Proven reserves 18 years production....Not Fabulous:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ntries_by_natural_gas_proven_reserves[/QUOTE]

.
s_by_natural_gas_proven_reserves[/URL]

Your chart is years out of date

 

[Crepitus]

These are the charges right off my bill.
Electricity Delivery charges
Basic service charges
1) Delivery charge .09783 cents per Kwh.
2 )transition charge .00201799 cents per kwh.
3 ) Revenue decoupling mech.000118 cents per kwh.
4) SBC charge . .006629 cents per kwh
5) Recovery charge .009344 cents per KWH
Then there are the
ELECTRICITY SUPPLY CHARGES.
1 ) Supply charge .09515065 cents per KWH
2) Merchant function charge .00334 cents per KWH
then Taxes on delivery charges 2.0408% ( on total bill )
Then sales tax of 3% on total bill
Looks to me to be a bunch of BS charges to pad their bottom line.
And I can't get a decent answer out of the PSC
What is a Revenue DECOUPLING mech?
A charge for decoupling me from my money?
And what is a Recovery charge? what are they recovering? Electric I didn't use?

"delivery charge"?

 

[FastLane]

Proven reserves 18 years production....Not Fabulous:

List of countries by natural gas proven reserves - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Our proven gas reserve should last 86 years. But we actually have a lot more NG in formations in several places. The Barnett shale in Texas alone is over 5,000 square miles. Horizontal drilling and fracturing is predicting amazing results. The wells that I have a piece of are in the Barnett. My old partner wanted to buy 800 acres of land that had the Barnett under it and the mineral rights came with the land I invested in the land and so far the wells that we have drill all produce NG. DFW airport drill well on the airport and made more money off the wells than the airport itself generated.

 

[FastLane]

"delivery charge"?

They are charging for the transmission lines use.

 

[Crepitus]

They are charging you for the transmission lines use.

Repeatedly it would seem.

 

[FastLane]

Proven reserves 18 years production....Not Fabulous:

List of countries by natural gas proven reserves - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

WASHINGTON, D.C.—At its current rate of consumption, the United States has 227 years of technically recoverable oil, according to the Institute for Energy Research’s latest North America Energy Inventory. For natural gas, the technically recoverable reserves would provide 130 years of supply, IER adds.

Those numbers reflect tremendous growth since IER first published its first North American Energy Inventory in 2011, the institute notes. At 1,657.5 billion barrels, its estimate for technically recoverable oil is 15% higher than in 2011. For gas, the estimate now stands at 4,032 trillion cubic feet, 47% higher.

 

[Tbird19482]

"delivery charge"?

YEP.
All that is directly off my bill.
What the fuck is a " Recovery charge " and a " Merchant function charge ".
I have asked the PSC and they can't even give me an answer.