American Healthcare

AnyOldIron

AnyOldIron

Atheist Missionary
Have a bit of faith in yourselves.

America is 234 years old and has immense wealth. If you can organise a trip to the moon you can sort out healthcare for every citizen.

The scare-mongers saying it will break America are just plain wrong.

:good4u:
 
AnyOldIron said:
Have a bit of faith in yourselves.

America is 234 years old and has immense wealth. If you can organise a trip to the moon you can sort out healthcare for every citizen.

The scare-mongers saying it will break America are just plain wrong.

:good4u:
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I'm going to send you back in time in my time travel machine to 471 AD in Rome.
Wondering what to tell them, I have a speech already prepared for you, here it is:
"Rome is over 1224 years old and has immense wealth. If you can organise trips to foreign countries to occupy them you can sort out the dole for every citizen.
The scare-mongers saying it will break Rome are just plain wrong."

If you'd like Jarod could accompany you on your trip, here's his line:
"Oh you neoromans can have your wars way back in the past hundreds of years ago but you can't have healthcare from your government?"

Then after the hostile crowd closes in because they sanely realize that they are overspent and weak, you try and get back to the present day but then realize I have no intention of bringing you back - ha 2 less Liberals and here I thought wishing them bon voyage to France was the answer!
 
KingCondanomation said:
I'm going to send you back in time in my time travel machine to 471 AD in Rome.
Wondering what to tell them, I have a speech already prepared for you, here it is:
"Rome is over 1224 years old and has immense wealth. If you can organise trips to foreign countries to occupy them you can sort out the dole for every citizen.
The scare-mongers saying it will break Rome are just plain wrong."

If you'd like Jarod could accompany you on your trip, here's his line:
"Oh you neoromans can have your wars way back in the past hundreds of years ago but you can't have healthcare from your government?"

Then after the hostile crowd closes in because they sanely realize that they are overspent and weak, you try and get back to the present day but then realize I have no intention of bringing you back - ha 2 less Liberals and here I thought wishing them bon voyage to France was the answer!
Click to expand...

I don't actually think Roman citizens paid taxes. They got an immense amount of money from their protectorates. Rome really wasn't a nation-state like America, it was an entirely different kind of government.

Healthcare is entirely doable in America. UHC has been done in a lot of places and it worked out fine. The system we're about to implement is basically like the Swiss system without price controls.
 
"Rome is over 1224 years old and has immense wealth. If you can organise trips to foreign countries to occupy them you can sort out the dole for every citizen.
The scare-mongers saying it will break Rome are just plain wrong."
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No, seriously, you can't be arguing that the grain dole 'broke' Rome?

The grain dole was introduced approximately 650 years before the end of the Western and 1500 years before the end of the Eastern empires and had no real effect on the decline and fall.

For the cause of that, look to military over-extension and the lack of political stability to maintain defenses.

Political instability originally derived from the reforms of Gaius Marius, which brought the Head Count into the legions. This meant that these new cohort legions looked to their generals for pay and retirement settlements, rather than the senate. They went from being the armies of the Consuls of the year to being the armies of individual generals. This allowed charismatic and talented generals such as Sulla and Caesar to march on Rome with armies at their backs. Which led to the principate.

Emperors, always paranoid of talented generals, refused to delegate power to them, but faced the problem of commanding such a huge empire. To deal with this, Emperors divided the empire which lead to a division of military power.

So when the great migrations of barbarians during the fifth and sixth centuries arrived at the borders of the empire there was insufficient military power to deflect them.

So I wouldn't worry about universal healthcare bringing about the collapse of American power.

American power is not like Roman power. Unlike Rome, and the British Empire after 1815, America has always had a significant competitor, firstly Russia, now China. In the 'good old days', America would have gone head to head with its competitors, as Rome did against its, and Britain did against its during the Napoleonic wars. But, luckily, the cold war stayed cold and that make-or-break situation never occurred.

American power lies in her ability to hold together a faction. The west. With that faction, it can hold off its competitors but will never 'go for broke' to gain that undisputed title. In many ways this is a sensible approach and could maintain its longevity.

What will break American power would be losing in a head to head with one of its serious competitors.
 
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Bittermark said:
I don't actually think Roman citizens paid taxes. They got an immense amount of money from their protectorates. Rome really wasn't a nation-state like America, it was an entirely different kind of government.

Healthcare is entirely doable in America. UHC has been done in a lot of places and it worked out fine. The system we're about to implement is basically like the Swiss system without price controls.
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Not income taxes, but taxes were levied at Roman ports. You are right, most of Roman wealth came from taxes over the provinces and direct plunder. Rome was an extended city state.

UHC works well if it is ran locally, kept out of the private sector and out of direct government control.
 
I still believe that we could come up with something that carried both parties into the future. Instead we're getting force-fed something that even the CBO says will not do what they mean it to do. According to the CBO, in 2020 5% of Americans will STILL be uncovered under this fiasco.

When the goal is to cover 15,000,000 out of 350,000,000 or so, you don't need to reinsure 335,000,000 people to do it.
 
Damocles said:
I still believe that we could come up with something that carried both parties into the future. Instead we're getting force-fed something that even the CBO says will not do what they mean it to do. According to the CBO, in 2020 5% of Americans will STILL be uncovered under this fiasco.

When the goal is to cover 15,000,000 out of 350,000,000 or so, you don't need to reinsure 335,000,000 people to do it.
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The house bill would have covered almost twice as many people. :-/
 
T&A said:
I think it will be funny if this bill passes.
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Well that is the problem, there are too many goofy bitches out there like you and Jarhead! Silly little fuckwits who don't know or care the first thing about the economy, the debt, solvency, or any damn thing else, including the quality and availability of health care in America! You just think it will be a "hoot" to throw capitalism under the bus in the face of the 'Pubs, because that is where your mentality lies... to you, this is all a big joke of a game... gettin' even for the Bush years!

You are going to live to regret Nationalized Health Care. In 20 years, when it is completely broke, and has bankrupted Medicare and Medicaid, along with destroying the best medical health system the world has ever known, when you are being told by your doctor's office... sorry, that's not covered... sorry, you'll have to wait until next year for that operation... sorry... the doctor quit.... sorry, the hospital is full... Mr. Pinhead, the Government has determined your illness is too costly to treat, we're sending you home with hospice to die... Mr. Pinhead, we regret to inform you the board has 'deemed' you unqualified for any further benefits.

Yah, it's all a big fucking party for you retards right now! Break out the champagne and celebrate... it took you a fucking year, with a super-majority in Congress, the White House, and the most convoluted twisting and distorting of the Constitution we have ever seen, including outright BRIBES for votes, to get something passed on Health Care! And even THEN, you couldn't vote on the bill, because you didn't have the votes to pass it! Congratulations... You will have completely destroyed the Democratic party in the process, all but ensuring a Republican congress in 2010, which will immediately rescind every last bit of this unconstitutional garbage you've foist on the American people. This thing is going to be challenged six ways from Sunday, lawsuits are already being prepared! IT WILL NOT STAND! ...But enjoy slapping each other on the back and celebrating your pinhead victory, it's the last one you will see for a very long time.
 
Dixie said:
Well that is the problem, there are too many goofy bitches out there like you and Jarhead! Silly little fuckwits who don't know or care the first thing about the economy, the debt, solvency, or any damn thing else, including the quality and availability of health care in America! You just think it will be a "hoot" to throw capitalism under the bus in the face of the 'Pubs, because that is where your mentality lies... to you, this is all a big joke of a game... gettin' even for the Bush years!

You are going to live to regret Nationalized Health Care. In 20 years, when it is completely broke, and has bankrupted Medicare and Medicaid, along with destroying the best medical health system the world has ever known, when you are being told by your doctor's office... sorry, that's not covered... sorry, you'll have to wait until next year for that operation... sorry... the doctor quit.... sorry, the hospital is full... Mr. Pinhead, the Government has determined your illness is too costly to treat, we're sending you home with hospice to die... Mr. Pinhead, we regret to inform you the board has 'deemed' you unqualified for any further benefits.

Yah, it's all a big fucking party for you retards right now! Break out the champagne and celebrate... it took you a fucking year, with a super-majority in Congress, the White House, and the most convoluted twisting and distorting of the Constitution we have ever seen, including outright BRIBES for votes, to get something passed on Health Care! And even THEN, you couldn't vote on the bill, because you didn't have the votes to pass it! Congratulations... You will have completely destroyed the Democratic party in the process, all but ensuring a Republican congress in 2010, which will immediately rescind every last bit of this unconstitutional garbage you've foist on the American people. This thing is going to be challenged six ways from Sunday, lawsuits are already being prepared! IT WILL NOT STAND! ...But enjoy slapping each other on the back and celebrating your pinhead victory, it's the last one you will see for a very long time.
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Dixie, do you really think that the American healthcare system is the best healthcare the world has ever known? Really?

This is the blind lemming shit that prevents anything from improving. Now, this healthcare "reform" going through congress now, is not something I would support, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to run around like a headless chicken and claim that American healthcare is the best the world has ever known. Being a complacent idiot does not make our healthcare system less broken. Cheerleading does not fix our healthcare either.

I find it ironic that you would cry that medicare would be broken if this bill passes. Do you want medicare to succeed or fail? Do you want healthcare to succeed? Do you want it to work?

Stop the lemming shit. Best healthcare man has ever known? Get the fuck real you total fool.
 
Beefy said:
Dixie, do you really think that the American healthcare system is the best healthcare the world has ever known? Really?

This is the blind lemming shit that prevents anything from improving. Now, this healthcare "reform" going through congress now, is not something I would support, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to run around like a headless chicken and claim that American healthcare is the best the world has ever known. Being a complacent idiot does not make our healthcare system less broken. Cheerleading does not fix our healthcare either.

I find it ironic that you would cry that medicare would be broken if this bill passes. Do you want medicare to succeed or fail? Do you want healthcare to succeed? Do you want it to work?

Stop the lemming shit. Best healthcare man has ever known? Get the fuck real you total fool.
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I said MEDICAL HEALTH SYSTEM fucktard! That includes ALL MEDICAL HEALTH INDUSTRIES AND PROFESSIONALS! The USA's, is the best the world has ever known... do I need to start listing the "firsts" in medicine? Just because you have your head stuck up France's butt, it doesn't change what we have accomplished in advanced technologies, groundbreaking procedures, monumental research, and that was enabled mostly by capitalist enterprise, not socialization.

It is STUNNING to me... the Same exact people who have lectured us since Roe v. Wade, about how the government doesn't have the right to interfere with a woman's medical choices, now wants government to have full control of everyone's medical choices!
 
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