A smarter way forward for real conservatives, for America

Mott the Hoople said:
Well from your perspective, considering your part of the far right polity, I doubt that I can do that cause in your mind anything slightly to the left of Attila the Hun would be a commie pinko liberal. From my perspective Democrats that I know to be moderate to center right would include, Evan Baye, Ben Nelson, Bob Conley, Pete Geren, Gabrielle Giffords, Brad Carson, John Tanner, Jim Matheson, Loretta Sanchez, Charlie Wilson, Mike Thompson, Gene Taylor, John Tanner, Zack Space, Heath Schuler, David, Scott, Adam Schiff, Mike Ross, Earl Pomeroy, Collin Paterson, Glenn Nye, Marion Berry (the one from Arkansas, not DC), Bob Casey, Jr are just a few that come to mind. Now again, with your being a member of the far right I understand that these are all pinko commies to you but most of the nation, who are not of the far right, considers these people to be moderate to center right to conservative and all are Democrats.
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attila sucks pink pantyhose, but still....your perspective is far from being unbiased.....I'll grant you the blue dogs as moderates, but not conservatives to the right of center.....and I consider the center to be a moving target of at least 25% of the electorate, since that approximately the number that won't register either as Democrat or Republican.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
attila sucks pink pantyhose, but still....your perspective is far from being unbiased.....I'll grant you the blue dogs as moderates, but not conservatives to the right of center.....and I consider the center to be a moving target of at least 25% of the electorate, since that approximately the number that won't register either as Democrat or Republican.....
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You find the center a moving target? How comes this doesn't surprise me? LOL

Actually it's more like 33% and most call them independents because they won't align themselves with a particular political party. Independents span the gap between liberal to conservative. Their chief calling card being that they are essentially non-partisan and are distrustful of political parties in general. As for my view being unbiased, thank you captain obvious, I all ready stated that I was alienated with the right wing of the republican party. In that respect I may be biased, but I'm also not a partisan. I'll turn on the Dems in a heart beat if they return to their social wellfare state mentality of the 70's. I could also consider returning to the Republican party if they abandon their right wing southern/rural parochialism with it's bigoted code language and it's advocacy of "What's good for us is good for you" economic plutocracy and "There's no such thing as good government" libertarianism".

It's those three items which are really hurting the republican party. The American people insist on good governance. In general they are very skeptical about Democrats ability to provide that. However, the majority are convinced that Republicans are incapable of providing sound governance and that's whey Republicans are losing elections. They (Republicans) need to return to being a party of sound and responsible governance and not the party of ideological extremism.

and by the way, the Bluedogs are by definition right of center to conservative. Moderate Democrats (which again would be filthy pinko commies to a right winger) are best exemplified by members of the DLC such as the Clinton's, Al Gore, Tom Vilasick, Harold Ford, Sam Nunn, Joe Lieberman, etc. Many of these have been villified by the right wing, particularly southern right wingers, as they are viewed as apostates, Clinton and Gore are the obvious examples. The vitriol of the right wing is not really aimed at their liberalism, as they are moderates, but because they are viewed as being southern apostates.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
You find the center a moving target? How comes this doesn't surprise me? LOL

Actually it's more like 33% and most call them independents because they won't align themselves with a particular political party. Independents span the gap between liberal to conservative. Their chief calling card being that they are essentially non-partisan and are distrustful of political parties in general. As for my view being unbiased, thank you captain obvious, I all ready stated that I was alienated with the right wing of the republican party. In that respect I may be biased, but I'm also not a partisan. I'll turn on the Dems in a heart beat if they return to their social wellfare state mentality of the 70's. I could also consider returning to the Republican party if they abandon their right wing southern/rural parochialism with it's bigoted code language and it's advocacy of "What's good for us is good for you" economic plutocracy and "There's no such thing as good government" libertarianism".

It's those three items which are really hurting the republican party. The American people insist on good governance. In general they are very skeptical about Democrats ability to provide that. However, the majority are convinced that Republicans are incapable of providing sound governance and that's whey Republicans are losing elections. They (Republicans) need to return to being a party of sound and responsible governance and not the party of ideological extremism.

and by the way, the Bluedogs are by definition right of center to conservative. Moderate Democrats (which again would be filthy pinko commies to a right winger) are best exemplified by members of the DLC such as the Clinton's, Al Gore, Tom Vilasick, Harold Ford, Sam Nunn, Joe Lieberman, etc. Many of these have been villified by the right wing, particularly southern right wingers, as they are viewed as apostates, Clinton and Gore are the obvious examples. The vitriol of the right wing is not really aimed at their liberalism, as they are moderates, but because they are viewed as being southern apostates.
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Can you give one example of bigoted code language?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You find the center a moving target? How comes this doesn't surprise me? LOL
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obviously it's a moving target....every time the left comes up with a new outrageous concept, the playing field gets broadened.....

what you consider the "extreme right" today is what the even the majority of the left considered the center within my life time...

if you had asked the average American in 1960 whether he believed there should be a "right" to kill your unborn child, whether a turning issue would be whether gays should be permitted to marry, even whether the government should sue to prevent a high school football team from saying a prayer before a football game you would clearly get a different answer than you would today....what conservatives are pressing for today is pretty much what conservatives believed in in 1960.....it's the left end of the scale that has changed, not the right.....

Independents span the gap between liberal to conservative.
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d'uh......

and by the way, the Bluedogs are by definition right of center to conservative.
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no, they are simply more conservative.....that doesn't mean they make it to the right of center.....Snow is a liberal Republican.....does that make her to the left of center or simply more liberal.....it depends on where the center is, and the center shifts every election cycle, simply because the independents vary from issue to issue, election to election...

Moderate Democrats (which again would be filthy pinko commies to a right winger) are best exemplified by members of the DLC such as the Clinton's, Al Gore, Tom Vilasick, Harold Ford, Sam Nunn, Joe Lieberman, etc. Many of these have been villified by the right wing, particularly southern right wingers, as they are viewed as apostates, Clinton and Gore are the obvious examples. The vitriol of the right wing is not really aimed at their liberalism, as they are moderates, but because they are viewed as being southern apostates.
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you can't even put Bill and Hillary in the same camp, let alone Gore and Lieberman......I think Bill, without Hillary, would have been a moderate....quite frankly, I think his commitment to any specific political position was shallow enough that if he had been married to a similar woman of conservative political persuasion he would could have ended up governor of Utah instead of Arkansas.....he was manipulable....
 
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Mott the hoople is overreaching his grasp. He's not as smart as he portrays.

He writes longer paragraphs that suck harder. This is the sign of someone trying to cover over reality with fancy words.
 
To some I would be the "whacko far right wing" because of my belief and stance on "moral" issues and the fact that my belief stems from believing that the Bible is truly the inspired word of God and thus should be followed on an individual level. If I were a congressman I would never vote for anything that would cause government supported abortion...I would always oppose that. I would never vote for any special rights and treatments of gays. There is more but that is enough to place me far to the right of many of my peers.

But then there is this...I would always try to find a way to come to terms with providing things to help the needy. I am a staunch supporter of public education. I am in favor of Social Security and Medicaid and Medicare. I am in favor of finding a way to help folks with their medical expenses that need such help. There has to be common ground that can be reached in this regard. I suppose that places me to the left of several of my peers as well. Believe it or not, this stance/belief stems from my belief in the Bible as well. Though I believe "that if a man doesn't work neither should he eat," I also believe that we should "leave the corners of the field" unharvested for the poor.

All that said, I agree with BAC. I look at the Becks and Limbaughs and all I see is hate and rhetoric. There has to be a better way.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
So what? The problem with that argument is, is that at present the Democratic party is more of a center right party then the Republican party is by far.

You're argument is hollow. America may be a center right nation politically but the republican party is dominiated by far right extremist. The Democrats are dominated by center right, moderates and a growing true conservative constituency because the Republican far right wing base won't allow for a middle of the road compromise to move forward.

Read Ice Dancers post previous to yours. It's a perfect example of a far right winger with a case of projection accusing others of being out of touch.

In other words, America may be a center right nation but it's also the nation that invented liberal democracy and made it the greatest form of government in the history of the world. One thing this nation is NOT is far right wing reactionary and that's why the Republican party is in a world of hurt.

What you also fail to mention or ask is why have so many center right people like me (and I"m definately center right to conservative on economic issues) have left the Republican party (I was a Republican for over 20 years)? Why?

Because we can't tolerate the right wing reactionary extremist in the party who have taken it over.

Graham and Voinavich are right. They are the voices of reason and sanity within the Republican party. People like Ice Dancer are just plain out of touch with mainstream America and what's bizarre, is that they think they are mainstream America. Aint that a hoot?
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Excellent thoughts.
 
leaningright said:
To some I would be the "whacko far right wing" because of my belief and stance on "moral" issues and the fact that my belief stems from believing that the Bible is truly the inspired word of God and thus should be followed on an individual level. If I were a congressman I would never vote for anything that would cause government supported abortion...I would always oppose that. I would never vote for any special rights and treatments of gays. There is more but that is enough to place me far to the right of many of my peers.

But then there is this...I would always try to find a way to come to terms with providing things to help the needy. I am a staunch supporter of public education. I am in favor of Social Security and Medicaid and Medicare. I am in favor of finding a way to help folks with their medical expenses that need such help. There has to be common ground that can be reached in this regard. I suppose that places me to the left of several of my peers as well. Believe it or not, this stance/belief stems from my belief in the Bible as well. Though I believe "that if a man doesn't work neither should he eat," I also believe that we should "leave the corners of the field" unharvested for the poor.

All that said, I agree with BAC. I look at the Becks and Limbaughs and all I see is hate and rhetoric. There has to be a better way.
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I've never considered you "whacko", never considered you "far-right." In fact, you are one of those voices I'm talking to. You don't belong in the same room with the far-right in spite of your belief in moral issues. There is a way to present the "moral" argument without being disgusting, and more sane voices on the arguments should be heard over the screaming.

No matter how vehemently you believe in any issue, if there's someone next to you .. on your side .. holding up a blatantly racist sign, YOU my brother have to call the racism out. You denigrate yourself and your issue by standing with an evil that you know is wrong.

Contrary to the self-exposed idiots who claim I'm telling the opposition what to do .. I'm not talking to the opposition my brother .. I'm talking to Americans who carry a different label. Aren't we still Americans? Different color, different faith, no faith, gay, straight, different political party .. at what point are we just Americans?

And, as I'm sure you're aware brother, I criticize my own side of the fence more than I do yours. That's something I believe we should all be doing instead of playing childish games of gotcha and mine is bigger than yours.

Change does not start with politicians, it start with Americans.
 
AssHatZombie said:
...for people who are retarded.
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Unfortunately my friend, you are so trapped by your "schtick" and bizzaroman persona that you can't free yourself from it and allow that intelligent guy inside you to have a chance at the mike.

I have a solution though .. create another screenname and only let that intelligent guy have the mike there.

I promise that I'll still love the AHZ .. but I'll have better conversations with the other you.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Sure, I'll give you one. When you hear right wingers refer to Obama as "The One" or "The Messiah" that's racist code language for Obama being an uppity niger.
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LOL. No it's not. It's an indication of the reverential attitude Obama devotees seem to have for their leader.

Is that all you've got? You suck.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
obviously it's a moving target....every time the left comes up with a new outrageous concept, the playing field gets broadened.....

what you consider the "extreme right" today is what the even the majority of the left considered the center within my life time...

if you had asked the average American in 1960 whether he believed there should be a "right" to kill your unborn child, whether a turning issue would be whether gays should be permitted to marry, even whether the government should sue to prevent a high school football team from saying a prayer before a football game you would clearly get a different answer than you would today....what conservatives are pressing for today is pretty much what conservatives believed in in 1960.....it's the left end of the scale that has changed, not the right.....


d'uh......


no, they are simply more conservative.....that doesn't mean they make it to the right of center.....Snow is a liberal Republican.....does that make her to the left of center or simply more liberal.....it depends on where the center is, and the center shifts every election cycle, simply because the independents vary from issue to issue, election to election...



you can't even put Bill and Hillary in the same camp, let alone Gore and Lieberman......I think Bill, without Hillary, would have been a moderate....quite frankly, I think his commitment to any specific political position was shallow enough that if he had been married to a similar woman of conservative political persuasion he would could have ended up governor of Utah instead of Arkansas.....he was manipulable....
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You're just making my point for me that those who don't share your right wing views are, from your perspective, liberals. That is really only because your not unsing "liberal' by it's political science definition but rather as a pejorative. By any standard of political science Bill Clinton is and was a political moderate. It was when he co-opted some of the agenda of southern conservatives that he earned their overloving hatred. Bill Clinton advocated and implemented welfare reform. Hardly the mark of a social welfare state liberal. He also supported gun control rights, again hardly the mark of a socical welfare state liberal. He also supported the death penalty and implemented it as a punishement at the Federal Level. Certain cocaine crime lords and domestic terorist Tim McViegh were convicted and sentenced to death under the federal death penatly guidelines Clinton implemented (again hardly the mark of a bleeding heart far left liberal). Let's not also forget Clinton's support and implementation of Free Trade Treaties such as NAFT, which again, is hardly the sign of a social welfare state liberal. So your argument about Clinton does not hold up to the light of day based upon the facts. Your argument is an ideolgocical argument and makes the false assumption that if ones motives are not ideologicaly based, that one does not have deep seated convictions. That's a plain laughable notion.
 
Cypress said:
They can't win national or most state-wide election without the teabaggers, the dixiecrats, the Limbaugh dittoheads and the racists. ....
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Wow here it is all in one sentence: an attack on anti-tax folks with a sexually disgusting reference; a bald-faced lie (Dixiecrats weren't right-wing, but Democrats); the mindless robot attack; and of course the race card (yet history shows that the Democrat Party is the racist party).
 
AssHatZombie said:
LOL. No it's not. It's an indication of the reverential attitude Obama devotees seem to have for their leader.

Is that all you've got? You suck.
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Un Huh, I'm not convinced. I see no indication of such reverence. We only have one african american on our board and he's one of the most critical of Obama. Where's this "reverential attitude?" I haven't seen it.

Nope, I'll hold by my guns. Calling Obama "The Messiah" is right wing code for an uppity niger. Who are you kidding?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Un Huh, I'm not convinced. I see no indication of such reverence. We only have one african american on our board and he's one of the most critical of Obama. Where's this "reverential attitude?" I haven't seen it.

Nope, I'll hold by my guns. Calling Obama "The Messiah" is right wing code for an uppity niger. Who are you kidding?
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You're delusional.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Un Huh, I'm not convinced. I see no indication of such reverence. We only have one african american on our board and he's one of the most critical of Obama. Where's this "reverential attitude?" I haven't seen it.

Nope, I'll hold by my guns. Calling Obama "The Messiah" is right wing code for an uppity niger. Who are you kidding?
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I hate to say this, but I agree with Asshat on this. This is not about his being black. This is about all the fawning over Obama in the election cycle. This also not to state that ALL blacks/dems/liberals felt or acted this way. But there was most certainly a reverential attitude towards Obama. I think that has certainly fallen off as the partisans who felt this way have removed their blinders and awoken to reality.

I have called him both "the One" and "the Messiah" to mock those who thought Obama was going to bring all this "change" and 'bring back the FDR/LBJ type of liberal new deal programs' and 'make the world love and respect us again' blah blah blah.... It was infatuation to an obnoxious degree.
 
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