A REAL American hero

you been soundly thrashed by both left and right on economics you snake oil salesman.

though now your to be pittied you uneducated moron, stick to your shallow unsupportable dem talking points, the hacks on the left will join you. The other 90% of us will continue to laugh at you.
 
Thank you for admitting you are polarizing the issue. It allows you to stick to your premise; insurance companies only deny coverage because those cases are unreasonable. They can be easily explained away; it is 'expecting insurance companies to provide unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone'.

That is not the truth. But you have no use for the truth. It would cause you to think and maybe even criticize the practices of the insurance industry. And it would take away dismissing me as merely 'bash(ing) the "evil corporations" as usual.'

The words of others I have posted are those of Wendell Potter, the man at the center of my OP. A man who spent 20 years in the industry, 15 years as an executive at CIGNA. He had the courage and conscience to walk away from a very lucrative position because he could no longer remain silent, or answer his son's questions. He witnessed and participated in practices at CIGNA that routinely denied claims to people, NOT because CIGNA was being asked to 'provides unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone', they were denied because if they didn't cower to Wall Street investors demands to keep their medical loss ratio down, they would be severely punished by those investors. Those are not my words, they are Wendell Potter's words.

I have provided an interview with Wendell Potter. You refuse to even watch it. WHY is that Winterborn? Are you so afraid to hear what the man has to say that you have to resort to polarizing the issues and forwarding the extremes to defend corporations? Is it possible corporations are not as lily white and wholesome as your polarized brain clings to?

It is truly sad to witness ignorance based on fear and dogma. Your epiphany will only occur when YOU are personally violated.

But take heart Winterborn, I have offered this Wendell Potter interview to hundreds of right wing zealots. NONE of them would watch it. So at least you now know who and what you are.

Weren't you calling me an asshole for telling you what you believe? (even though I was not)

As a matter of fact, I have watched the video. But, unlike you, I also sought out other sources of information. I have blasted insurance companies numerous times for their practices. But, unlike you, I have also blasted the medical people when they deserved it.

Just a little hint, if you are going to get all indignant and claim to be offended when you think people are telling you what you think, you really ought not to do it so much in your own posts.

And, unlike you, I repeatedly requested your views. But you stubbornly refused to provide them. Apparently what you want is to post something blasting big corporations, and then bask in the praise of those who agree, while those who disagree remain silent. Sorry Bfoon, that ain't how it works.

As for your insulting remark of "It is truly sad to witness ignorance based on fear and dogma. Your epiphany will only occur when YOU are personally violated.", do you know me or my story? Have you ever even taken the time to ask? No. You simply make blanket statements based on your own ignorance and political agenda.

As a matter of fact, I am not ignorant. And I base my beliefs and stance on my own research, not a single sensationalistic video. And I have had my troubles with the insurance companies. I have seen my wife denied treatements, or required extra treatments when I strongly disagreed with it. So don't come off all high & mighty. And no where in my posts did you see me praising the insurance company. You made that assumption without asking.

In short, just because you base you opinion on one video and refuse to answer questions, don't assume everyone does the same. Try asking questions before you try to make cheap judgements.
 
WHAT is the purpose of buying health insurance?

The purpose of insurance to to provide medical coverage as outlined by the policy. The purpose is not to provide unlimited access to corporate coffers.
 
One of the major problems is people don't have any insurance to begin with or have a high co-pay resulting in them postponing a doctor's visit until their ailment has progressed. Just the idea of a free yearly physical/blood test would result in massive savings.

As for "Wouldn't a gov't mandate to fund procedures not covered be far cheaper?" that supposes one has insurance to begin with. The most vocal opponents of government medical are those who can afford to pay for "luxuries". I see the place for private insurance in regards to covering private hospital rooms and private clinics where one doesn't have to wait for a blood test and for wheelchairs and other aids once the person arrives home.

When discussing costs/affordability even if the 1/3 savings realized by national plans do not persuade people surely the fact there isn't one country in which the citizens are demanding a return to private medical shows the superiority of a government medical plan.

The last figures I saw showed something around 80% of the population having health insurance. I know there need to be major changes in the medical realm in this country. But I also know that blaming the insurance companies while ignoring the medical fields is wrong.
 
Weren't you calling me an asshole for telling you what you believe? (even though I was not)

As a matter of fact, I have watched the video. But, unlike you, I also sought out other sources of information. I have blasted insurance companies numerous times for their practices. But, unlike you, I have also blasted the medical people when they deserved it.

Just a little hint, if you are going to get all indignant and claim to be offended when you think people are telling you what you think, you really ought not to do it so much in your own posts.

And, unlike you, I repeatedly requested your views. But you stubbornly refused to provide them. Apparently what you want is to post something blasting big corporations, and then bask in the praise of those who agree, while those who disagree remain silent. Sorry Bfoon, that ain't how it works.

As for your insulting remark of "It is truly sad to witness ignorance based on fear and dogma. Your epiphany will only occur when YOU are personally violated.", do you know me or my story? Have you ever even taken the time to ask? No. You simply make blanket statements based on your own ignorance and political agenda.

As a matter of fact, I am not ignorant. And I base my beliefs and stance on my own research, not a single sensationalistic video. And I have had my troubles with the insurance companies. I have seen my wife denied treatements, or required extra treatments when I strongly disagreed with it. So don't come off all high & mighty. And no where in my posts did you see me praising the insurance company. You made that assumption without asking.

In short, just because you base you opinion on one video and refuse to answer questions, don't assume everyone does the same. Try asking questions before you try to make cheap judgements.

I'm not ignorant either. You have tried to dismiss this as 'expecting insurance companies to provide unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone' and me 'bash(ing) the "evil corporations" as usual.'

Do you deny that?
 
what a fucking retard GED.
You get slammed then change the guy's statement that powned you to some JR high rant.

BFGED unending comedic relief
 
what a fucking retard GED.
You get slammed then change the guy's statement that powned you to some JR high rant.

BFGED unending comedic relief

I've encountered stray dogs that have better manners than you, Topspin. If someone has built a successful career without attending college and provides for their family, what difference does it make? Some of the smartest people I've met didn't attend college. Hell, some of the wealthiest people in our country either didn't attend or dropped out of college. The fact that you continue pressing this "issue" makes me question whether you are telling the truth about your own education. Feeling a bit insecure, perhaps?

Bfgrn and I don't agree on much (in fact, you and I are in closer agreement on this particular issue) but your attacks are childish and petty. How about you try actually debating for a change instead of resorting to childish remarks.
 
he is getting his ass handed to him, so I can see your pity for him.
However, you must have missed the fucking juvinille monkey shit throwing from him.
Or, maybe you aren't feeling so great about the dogshit degree you got?
 
I'm not ignorant either. You have tried to dismiss this as 'expecting insurance companies to provide unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone' and me 'bash(ing) the "evil corporations" as usual.'

Do you deny that?

No, I do not deny that. And I am accurate in my statements, based on what you have said. I repeatedly asked about the failings of the surgeons and the hospital, but you have steadfastly refused to include them in the blame-game.

My repeated questions concerning the "expecting insurance companies to provide unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone" were as a counterpoint to your "they put money before human life" comments. Unless you are advocating unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone, you are putting money before human life as well.


The difference between our arguments is that I didn't call you an asshole or ignorant until after you started the insults. I wanted to actually discuss the issue. You, on the otherhand, are totally unwilling to do so.
 
No, I do not deny that. And I am accurate in my statements, based on what you have said. I repeatedly asked about the failings of the surgeons and the hospital, but you have steadfastly refused to include them in the blame-game.

My repeated questions concerning the "expecting insurance companies to provide unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone" were as a counterpoint to your "they put money before human life" comments. Unless you are advocating unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone, you are putting money before human life as well.


The difference between our arguments is that I didn't call you an asshole or ignorant until after you started the insults. I wanted to actually discuss the issue. You, on the otherhand, are totally unwilling to do so.

I didn't call you an asshole, I called you an ass. There is a difference. You want to stifle debate with your self admitted polarized arguments, rigged questions and false equivalencies. I would not play along. That is not debating on your part, it is attempting to bait.

If you don't like being called an ass, stop acting like one.

The issues in the for profit health insurance debate are NOT about "expecting insurance companies to provide unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone". If you watched the interview with Wendell Potter, that is clear...CRYSTAL.

You 'claim', unlike me, that you have done research and have other sources on these issues. Really? WHERE are they? Are they secretly coded in your polarized arguments, rigged questions and false equivalencies WB? Or is there another senior VP from an insurance corporation who is willing to tell the truth about what goes on in the industry? Wendell Potter is a rare gem in today's society.

Health Insurance Insider: 'They Dump the Sick'


Frustrated Americans have long complained that their insurance companies valued the all-mighty buck over their health care. Today, a retired insurance executive confirmed their suspicions, arguing that the industry that once employed him regularly rips off its policyholders.

"[T]hey confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors," former Cigna senior executive Wendell Potter said during a hearing on health insurance today before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

Potter, who has more than 20 years of experience working in public relations for insurance companies Cigna and Humana, said companies routinely drop seriously ill policyholders so they can meet "Wall Street's relentless profit expectations."

"They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy, even if the enrollee has never missed a premium payment," Potter said. "…(D)umping a small number of enrollees can have a big effect on the bottom line."

Small businesses, in particular, he said, have had trouble maintaining their employee health insurance coverage, he said.

"All it takes is one illness or accident among employees at a small business to prompt an insurance company to hike the next year's premiums so high that the employer has to cut benefits, shop for another carrier, or stop offering coverage altogether," he said.

Potter also faulted insurance companies for being misleading both in advertising their policies to new customers and in communicating with existing policyholders.

More and more people, he said, are falling victim to "deceptive marketing practices" that encourage them to buy "what essentially is fake insurance," policies with high costs but surprisingly limited benefits.

Insurance companies continue to mislead consumers through "explanation of benefits" documents that note what payments the insurance company made and what's left for consumers to pay out of pocket, Potter said.

The documents, he said, are "notoriously incomprehensible."

"Insurers know that policyholders are so baffled by those notices they usually just ignore them or throw them away. And that's exactly the point," he said. "If they were more understandable, more consumers might realize that they are being ripped off."

Potter did have some kind words to share about his former employer, Cigna.

"I hope that I'm not coming across as someone who's critical of my former employer. I had a good career at Cigna and was well-compensated. I was there for 15 years and lasted 15 years," he said. "My comments are directed toward an industry that is really going in the wrong direction and taking this country in the wrong direction."

ABC News

"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
 
you can fine an ex industry expert in any industry that poo poo's the industry. Democrats need an evil demon for thier us against them to work. Couple years ago it was the one saying "the evil exxon's of the world".

evil copr and outragious profits are the GED's paradise
 
I didn't call you an asshole, I called you an ass. There is a difference. You want to stifle debate with your self admitted polarized arguments, rigged questions and false equivalencies. I would not play along. That is not debating on your part, it is attempting to bait.

If you don't like being called an ass, stop acting like one.

The issues in the for profit health insurance debate are NOT about "expecting insurance companies to provide unlimited life prolonging medical procedures to everyone". If you watched the interview with Wendell Potter, that is clear...CRYSTAL.

You 'claim', unlike me, that you have done research and have other sources on these issues. Really? WHERE are they? Are they secretly coded in your polarized arguments, rigged questions and false equivalencies WB? Or is there another senior VP from an insurance corporation who is willing to tell the truth about what goes on in the industry? Wendell Potter is a rare gem in today's society.

Health Insurance Insider: 'They Dump the Sick'


Frustrated Americans have long complained that their insurance companies valued the all-mighty buck over their health care. Today, a retired insurance executive confirmed their suspicions, arguing that the industry that once employed him regularly rips off its policyholders.

"[T]hey confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors," former Cigna senior executive Wendell Potter said during a hearing on health insurance today before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

Potter, who has more than 20 years of experience working in public relations for insurance companies Cigna and Humana, said companies routinely drop seriously ill policyholders so they can meet "Wall Street's relentless profit expectations."

"They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy, even if the enrollee has never missed a premium payment," Potter said. "…(D)umping a small number of enrollees can have a big effect on the bottom line."

Small businesses, in particular, he said, have had trouble maintaining their employee health insurance coverage, he said.

"All it takes is one illness or accident among employees at a small business to prompt an insurance company to hike the next year's premiums so high that the employer has to cut benefits, shop for another carrier, or stop offering coverage altogether," he said.

Potter also faulted insurance companies for being misleading both in advertising their policies to new customers and in communicating with existing policyholders.

More and more people, he said, are falling victim to "deceptive marketing practices" that encourage them to buy "what essentially is fake insurance," policies with high costs but surprisingly limited benefits.

Insurance companies continue to mislead consumers through "explanation of benefits" documents that note what payments the insurance company made and what's left for consumers to pay out of pocket, Potter said.

The documents, he said, are "notoriously incomprehensible."

"Insurers know that policyholders are so baffled by those notices they usually just ignore them or throw them away. And that's exactly the point," he said. "If they were more understandable, more consumers might realize that they are being ripped off."

Potter did have some kind words to share about his former employer, Cigna.

"I hope that I'm not coming across as someone who's critical of my former employer. I had a good career at Cigna and was well-compensated. I was there for 15 years and lasted 15 years," he said. "My comments are directed toward an industry that is really going in the wrong direction and taking this country in the wrong direction."

ABC News

"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Had you simply answered my question when I first asked, we could have had a nice discussion. But instead, you pulled your typical insultfest when anyone doesn't jump up and sing the praises of your brilliance. (that is called sarcasm)
 
Had you simply answered my question when I first asked, we could have had a nice discussion. But instead, you pulled your typical insultfest when anyone doesn't jump up and sing the praises of your brilliance. (that is called sarcasm)

I did answer your question, but you didn't like my response. You presented a rigged question. I wouldn't take the bait. Because anyone facing the prognosis/cost example you presented would never qualify for a transplant list. Any competent doctors would recommend the family talk to hospice. So your 'nice discussion' is a myth.
 
The last figures I saw showed something around 80% of the population having health insurance. I know there need to be major changes in the medical realm in this country. But I also know that blaming the insurance companies while ignoring the medical fields is wrong.

If I understand your meaning regarding medical fields, certain specialities and associated fees, it's unlikely one speciality will lower their price while others do not. We have to remember our society is built on the "what the market will bear" philosophy. A solution would never be found for the medical crisis if it's attacked one part at a time.

The blame I place on insurance companies is they shouldn't be involved in medical care. It should be government run. If any profit is to be made it should be made by the doctors and hospitals involved, not a third party. Basic medical care should not be a business anymore than the Police Force is a business. That's the fundamental problem.
 
I did answer your question, but you didn't like my response. You presented a rigged question. I wouldn't take the bait. Because anyone facing the prognosis/cost example you presented would never qualify for a transplant list. Any competent doctors would recommend the family talk to hospice. So your 'nice discussion' is a myth.

No, it was not a rigged question. It was a question designed to examine the limits of what you expect from an insurance company. You make accusations (via someone else's words) and then refuse to see the logical result of extending that same level of care to the extreme. The hypothetical question (and it was labelled as such) did not fit what what you wanted to discuss, so you tried to avoid it.

I polarized the discussion to see where you expect the limits (if any) to be. You steadfastly refused to discuss any limitations whatsoever.

And just as an FYI, polarizing a topic is not a bad thing. It allows us to discuss it logically instead of using kneejerk emotional reactions.
 
If I understand your meaning regarding medical fields, certain specialities and associated fees, it's unlikely one speciality will lower their price while others do not. We have to remember our society is built on the "what the market will bear" philosophy. A solution would never be found for the medical crisis if it's attacked one part at a time.

The blame I place on insurance companies is they shouldn't be involved in medical care. It should be government run. If any profit is to be made it should be made by the doctors and hospitals involved, not a third party. Basic medical care should not be a business anymore than the Police Force is a business. That's the fundamental problem.

I don't think you are wrong. But my biggest problem with it all is that I do not believe the gov't does anything well or efficiently. I do not believe the gov't can run an efficient or even a good medical system. I think it would rapidly become a bloated bureacracy in which politics rules and patient care goes downhill.
 
I don't think you are wrong. But my biggest problem with it all is that I do not believe the gov't does anything well or efficiently. I do not believe the gov't can run an efficient or even a good medical system.

If that's the case then the government is the last agency we should have in charge of defence and Police/legal system.

Of course, by the government being in charge of those services one has a much better chance of being treated fairly.

I think it would rapidly become a bloated bureacracy in which politics rules and patient care goes downhill.

Bloated bureaucracy? Government medical is 1/3 cheaper, on average.
 
Back
Top